Freemasons in the UK, a general discussion

[Pickman's model]

And at the other end of the journalistic spectrum, an attempt to demystify freemasonry in the UK, from march this year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/fea...d-trouser-legs-secrets-of-the-Freemasons.html

I didnt know the following, is it accurate?

Just going by my collection of interwar hackney gazettes there's some truth that it used to be more widely reported, eg mentioned in obituaries of former mayors, but 200,000 masons in the gas chambers for being masons? I think masonry was banned i. 1933 in germany and probably earlier in italy, so I am sceptical of the telegraph's claim. Plus it makes them all out to be cowardly defeatists.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't quite understand what freemasonry is for, really, aside from networking opportunities. However, it seems pretty clear to me that membership of secretive organisations is problematic with certain jobs. Being a copper, for instance.

Also, they're not quite an equal opportunities organisation, given that they exclude just over half the population.

No need to parade your ignorance: women can be masons too

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No need to parade your ignorance: women can be masons too, there is one degree exclusively for women

wikipedia, I know, but are you telling me this is wrong?

The United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), and others concordant in that "masculine only" masonic tradition, do not formally recognize any Masonic body that accepts women.

 

[Pickman's model]

wikipedia, I know, but are you telling me this is wrong?

Have you tried googling 'women freemasons'? Or did you just rush to wikipedia?

do you believe the united grand lodge is all freemasons?

 

[Spymaster]

No need to parade your ignorance: women can be masons too

They can't join regular lodges but there are some women's lodges, although they are not recognised by the UGLE.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Have you tried googling 'women freemasons'? Or did you just rush to wikipedia?

Don't be a nob all your life, Pickman's. Mainstream masonic lodges are men-only. There appear to be organisations of women-only lodges and others, but they are not a part of the mainstream masonic tradition.

 

[DotCommunist]

Annoyingly 'margaret thatcher freemason' only spews forth an internets worth of loon

 

[Citizen66]

I doubt he was genuinely shocked, it's probably the worlds worst kept "secret". I'm usually more surprised when someone tries to badger me into revealing it and then proceeds to keep getting it wrong.

His reaction was one of shock. Not sure how either of us at this juncture could ascertain if it was genuine or not.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

do you believe the united grand lodge is all freemasons?

Spymaster may be able to confirm this, but from my little bit of reading, it would appear that many freemasons themselves consider that only men can be freemasons.

Again, wikipedia, but it's referenced:

in many jurisdictions masons swear "not to be present at the making of a woman a Mason" in their obligations.[2] Many masons believe that regardless of their opinions of women in masonry, they cannot break their obligation.

Freemasonry is very silly.

 

[Pickman's model]

Don't be a nob all your life, Pickman's. Mainstream masonic lodges are men-only. There appear to be organisations of women-only lodges and others, but they are not a part of the mainstream masonic tradition.

from the united grand lodge site

Are there women Freemasons?
Yes. Whilst UGLE, following the example of medieval stonemasons, is, and has always been, restricted to men, women Freemasons have two separate Grand Lodges, which are restricted to women.

 

[Spymaster]

Spymaster may be able to confirm this, but from my little bit of reading, it would appear that many freemasons themselves consider that only men can be freemasons.

This is correct.

I've met a few female "Freemasons" and from what I gather their structures, principles, and rituals are pretty much identical to ours but in the eyes of most, mainstream freemasonry pretty much starts and finishes with acceptance by the UGLE, and female lodges are not currently recognised.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

from the united grand lodge site

Are there women Freemasons?
Yes. Whilst UGLE, following the example of medieval stonemasons, is, and has always been, restricted to men, women Freemasons have two separate Grand Lodges, which are restricted to women.

If they don't have access to the mainstream lodges, they're not a part of the mainstream. They don't get to network, or whatever else happens. They don't get to brown-nose their chief inspector, or whatever else happens.

 

[Pickman's model]

wikipedia, I know, but are you telling me this is wrong?

i said women can be freemasons, something with which the united grand lodge agrees. then you decided to shunt the goalposts. the traditional act of the wanker.

 

[Pickman's model]

If they don't have access to the mainstream lodges, they're not a part of the mainstream. They don't get to network, or whatever else happens. They don't get to brown-nose their chief inspector, or whatever else happens.

you said nothing about the mainstream until i took you to task.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

you said nothing about the mainstream until i took you to task.

Fuck me, you're tiresome sometimes.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Contrary to popular belief freemasons do not go around giving funny handshakes on the off-chance that the other chap could recognise him. I shake hands quite normally with people.

I was taking the piss

 

[Spymaster]

i said women can be freemasons, something with which the united grand lodge agrees. then you decided to shunt the goalposts.

I don't think that's fair. There are quite a few organisations that call (or have called) themselves freemasons ranging from the criminal, like Propaganda Due (P2), to the less sinister "clubs" such as the womens lodges, but they are not recognised by UGLE as masonic and there's no association with these organisations.

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't think that's fair. There are quite a few organisations that call (or have called) themselves freemasons ranging from the criminal, like Propaganda Due (P2), to the less sinister "clubs" such as the womens lodges, but they are not recognised by UGLE as masonic and there's no association with these organisations.

possible pontiff slayers

 

[newbie]

well I've woken up this morning still thinking this is very odd, and still wondering about a plausible explanation.

Spy, you're the one who underestands the symbolism, what's the precise meaning of this icon if used by a mason in context with other masons. I'm not asking you to speculate again about this particlular instance, but within masonry, how would this be interpreted? Is there any difference between the eye on top of the triangle/pyramid and the eye inside it? Do the rays at the top add anything specific?

 

[U N Arrator]

well I've woken up this morning still thinking this is very odd, and still wondering about a plausible explanation.

Spy, you're the one who underestands the symbolism, what's the precise meaning of this icon if used by a mason in context with other masons. I'm not asking you to speculate again about this particlular instance, but within masonry, how would this be interpreted? Is there any difference between the eye on top of the triangle/pyramid and the eye inside it? Do the rays at the top add anything specific?

It just means that these people are a bit fucking odd.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I don't think it's that odd at all...

the childish graffiti was clearly judging by the windows defaced as well the act of some pissed up yoots... under that auspice they'd misuse any symbol... I'll bet there's a pentagram inside too...

 

[Pickman's model]

Fuck me, you're tiresome sometimes.

At least i'm only tiresome sometimes. You, by comparison...

 

[DotCommunist]

its by the same crude hand that has daubed 'Jimmy The Beast' on the other bit of the house.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think that's fair. There are quite a few organisations that call (or have called) themselves freemasons ranging from the criminal, like Propaganda Due (P2), to the less sinister "clubs" such as the womens lodges, but they are not recognised by UGLE as masonic and there's no association with these organisations.

1) life's not fair

2) ugle is not the governing body of all freemasonry

 

[littlebabyjesus]

2) ugle is not the governing body of all freemasonry

Just the overwhelming majority of it?

 

[free spirit]

Spy, you're the one who underestands the symbolism, what's the precise meaning of this icon if used by a mason in context with other masons. I'm not asking you to speculate again about this particlular instance, but within masonry, how would this be interpreted? Is there any difference between the eye on top of the triangle/pyramid and the eye inside it? Do the rays at the top add anything specific?

the meaning is pretty clear isn't it?

Whoever did the graffiti is insinuating that Savile was a freemason.

Whether there's any truth to that I don't know, but it wouldn't exactly be a surprise would it?

eta - if he was though then that's an angle on all of this that is yet to come out.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not necessarily, fs. He may have been a mason, but kept his paedo activities separate from his masonic activities. I think that's perfectly possible. If he was a mason, he may very well have considered it wise to hide his paedo evilry from his lodge.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And at the other end of the journalistic spectrum, an attempt to demystify freemasonry in the UK, from march this year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/fea...d-trouser-legs-secrets-of-the-Freemasons.html

I didnt know the following, is it accurate?

Inaccurate, not in the numbers of Freemasons rounded up, but about their destination, which was concentration camps, not "gas chambers". A majority of them did die, however, but generally from camp epidemics of cholera and typhus allied to malnutrition and overwork, rather than industrial-scale murder processes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

One clue is that they wont start dribbling in your ear about masons being a gateway to evilll.

And they do dribble a lot, what with having lizardy forked tongues.

 

[ViolentPanda]

all middle class white men of course

Especially Spymaster.