Fascists, Fascism and the Invasion.

[Dystopiary]

Interesting thread on Wagner Group, mercenaries and PMCs (private military companies):



(Reposted from the "tangentially related" thread, as requested.)

 

[rekil]

Russian soldiers celebrate birthday of ‘comrade and friend’ Hitler

Russian soldiers have wished Hitler a happy birthday and described him as a “comrade and a friend”.Two Russian soldiers posed for a picture in front of a military van emblazoned with the letter “Z”, a symbol used for the war in Ukraine. The windscreen of the truck also bore the number 88, a white su

www.thetimes.co.uk

The 88 is cropped out of the times pic for whatever reason.

 

[keybored]

From the Fires of War: Ukraine's Azov Movement and the Global Far Right (Analyzing Political Violence): Amazon.co.uk: Michael Colborne, Bethan Johnson, John Richardson: 9783838215082: Books

Buy From the Fires of War: Ukraine's Azov Movement and the Global Far Right (Analyzing Political Violence) 1 by Michael Colborne, Bethan Johnson, John Richardson (ISBN: 9783838215082) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

This new book on the Azov Battalion looks great.

Does anyone happen to know when the ebook is coming? Supposed to be released with the paperback but I haven't seen it anywhere.

 

[The39thStep]

Nothing to see here

 

[nogojones]

Nothing to see here

I would imagine they are mostly people who have only heard of Azov over the last two months and generally know nothing of their history. Most western media has framed them as the only force saving Mariupol from the Russian hoard, and there is an element of truth to that.

 

[CyberRose]

I would imagine they are mostly people who have only heard of Azov over the last two months and generally know nothing of their history. Most western media has framed them as the only force saving Mariupol from the Russian hoard, and there is an element of truth to that.

Hmmm...my first thought was that they're Ukrainians that support Azov?

Edit to add: I would therefore find it difficult to believe they've only just heard of Azov in the last two months...

 

[Southlondon]

I would imagine they are mostly people who have only heard of Azov over the last two months and generally know nothing of their history. Most western media has framed them as the only force saving Mariupol from the Russian hoard, and there is an element of truth to that.

They are barracked at Mariupol I believe and have been at the forefront of the suppression of the Russian separatists so they were in situ when the war started.
They were already well connected to Nazis across the world including British ones so I imagine they have quite a nazi fan club in USA and that will only grow with the way they’re being portrayed as heroes

 

[Southlondon]

Critical unconditional support

That’s where we differ then! I personally think fascists are scum not allies. You obviously relish war over borders and have no problem with paramilitary white supremacists as allies.
Would you stand shoulder to shoulder with C18 members if our borders were breeched? I am afraid I would rather watch them die

 

[frogwoman]

Does anyone happen to know when the ebook is coming? Supposed to be released with the paperback but I haven't seen it anywhere.

Dunno but I can send you my copy once I've finished reading it in a month or two

 

[Pickman's model]

That’s where we differ then! I personally think fascists are scum not allies. You obviously relish war over borders and have no problem with paramilitary white supremacists as allies.
Would you stand shoulder to shoulder with C18 members if our borders were breeched? I am afraid I would rather watch them die

I've not actually posted anything from which you can honestly draw the conclusions you do

 

[LDC]

That’s where we differ then! I personally think fascists are scum not allies. You obviously relish war over borders and have no problem with paramilitary white supremacists as allies.
Would you stand shoulder to shoulder with C18 members if our borders were breeched? I am afraid I would rather watch them die

I think you need to read more about Azov, it's much less clear that they're all fascists than you're making out, and generally more complex. frogwoman has posted some stuff here about them.

 

[frogwoman]

Also, Azov have become known as heroes because of their role defending Mariupol - and the Ukrainian far right themselves are very keen to hype up the association and associate Azov members with their own politics when its far from clear every Azov member is fash. It's not hard to believe that the average Ukrainian who doesn't follow politics that closely might feel inspired by a group of people who have held out and kept up a strong defence as the rest of the city has been obliterated

 

[Southlondon]

I think you need to read more about Azov, it's much less clear that they're all fascists than you're making out, and generally more complex. frogwoman has posted some stuff here about them.

It is a factvtvat

I've not actually posted anything from which you can honestly draw the conclusions you do

I think you need to read more about Azov, it's much less clear that they're all fascists than you're making out, and generally more complex. frogwoman has posted some stuff here about them.

There are enough reports on the human rights violations in pre-war Ukraine by far right paramilitary groups, and the AZOV division were at the forefront of activities. Plenty of documented attacks against Roma communities, lgbt and human rights activists. We are not talking about a loose knit group of beer swilling EDL equivalents but ideological white supremacists. They were based in mauripul and we’re responsible for the torture and murder of many people. They might be getting sanitised by ukraines allies while the war rages but I have not read anything yet that tells us they are now just another Ukrainian batallion of the Ukrainian army - they preserve their distinct identity and they are idolised by many fascists across Europe and here in England.
A fear for many seems to be that the far right will emerge more influential than they were before the war.
They should have been disbanded before the war not integrated into the Ukrainian army and allowed to retain their distinct separate identity.
And I repeat , I hope all far right scum in Ukraine and Russia die a nice slow and painful death,

 

[Southlondon]

Also, Azov have become known as heroes because of their role defending Mariupol - and the Ukrainian far right themselves are very keen to hype up the association and associate Azov members with their own politics when its far from clear every Azov member is fash. It's not hard to believe that the average Ukrainian who doesn't follow politics that closely might feel inspired by a group of people who have held out and kept up a strong defence as the rest of the city has been obliterated

Then it’s the job of anti fascists to always expose the true nature of their vile ideology and the danger they pose to a post-war Ukraine, if it still exists, to those who are not politically aware.
No one should be allowed to be inspired by fascists. Don’t you see the danger of that once the war finishes?

 

[frogwoman]

The Times: Putin has sent mercenaries to Kyiv led by an admirer of the Nazis to murder Zelenskyy and the Klitschko brothers - Romea.cz - Everything about Roma in one place

The Times reports that more than 400 Russian mercenaries are operating in Kyiv on orders from the Kremlin to murder Ukrainian President Volodymyr

www.romea.cz

You'll be fine with nobody being inspired by the Wagner Group then.

 

[Southlondon]

Quote “Also, Azov have become known as heroes because of their role defending Mariupol -“
Jesus bloody wept! Do you really want people to see the AZOV as heroes?
Some Roma have even been attacked by the far right since the war started. Please remember we’re talking about Ukraine , described by the UN in 2919 as a ‘borderline democracy’ due to poor human rights record and corruption. It’s not Holland or Spain we’re talking about. Lose your rose tinted spectacles frog woman

 

[Southlondon]

The Times: Putin has sent mercenaries to Kyiv led by an admirer of the Nazis to murder Zelenskyy and the Klitschko brothers - Romea.cz - Everything about Roma in one place

The Times reports that more than 400 Russian mercenaries are operating in Kyiv on orders from the Kremlin to murder Ukrainian President Volodymyr

www.romea.cz

You'll be fine with nobody being inspired by the Wagner Group then.

Hating AZOV doesn’t make me support the Wagner group you dipstick

 

[frogwoman]

Quote “Also, Azov have become known as heroes because of their role defending Mariupol -“
Jesus bloody wept! Do you really want people to see the AZOV as heroes?
Some Roma have even been attacked by the far right since the war started. Please remember we’re talking about Ukraine , described by the UN in 2919 as a ‘borderline democracy’ due to poor human rights record and corruption. It’s not Holland or Spain we’re talking about. Lose your rose tinted spectacles frog woman

I didn't say it was a good thing or that I wanted it to happen ffs!

 

[frogwoman]

Glad to hear you don't support the Wagner Group, your posting obsessively about one topic that heavily aligns with one party's messaging in this war made me wonder for a sec

 

[Pickman's model]

It is a factvtvat


There are enough reports on the human rights violations in pre-war Ukraine by far right paramilitary groups, and the AZOV division were at the forefront of activities. Plenty of documented attacks against Roma communities, lgbt and human rights activists. We are not talking about a loose knit group of beer swilling EDL equivalents but ideological white supremacists. They were based in mauripul and we’re responsible for the torture and murder of many people. They might be getting sanitised by ukraines allies while the war rages but I have not read anything yet that tells us they are now just another Ukrainian batallion of the Ukrainian army - they preserve their distinct identity and they are idolised by many fascists across Europe and here in England.
A fear for many seems to be that the far right will emerge more influential than they were before the war.
They should have been disbanded before the war not integrated into the Ukrainian army and allowed to retain their distinct separate identity.
And I repeat , I hope all far right scum in Ukraine and Russia die a nice slow and painful death,

Yeh I'm still not seeing anything that allows you to honestly draw the conclusions that you did. And I think an apology's called for from you

 

[Southlondon]

Glad to hear you don't support the Wagner Group, your posting obsessively about one topic that heavily aligns with one party's messaging in this war made me wonder for a sec

You are very defensive over the AZOV situation and pop it into posts wherever you can. I was wondering about your politics to be honest, yiu really seem to have a list for war and suffering albeit in someone else’s country
. I am not a member of any group/party. I am a left wing lifelong militant anti fascist if you want to know, and apart from a hatred of fascists I am a pacifist and would like to see as few people killed in this shitty war as possible. I hope it’s a negotiated end rather than a fight to the finish cheered on by those great champions of freedom the Americans and our highly trustworthy and effective PM and the weird and the wonderful on this forum

 

[The39thStep]

Are all the Wagner group Nazis or are they complex as well ?

 

[frogwoman]

Its kinda weird that you joined in 2016, made about 5 posts and then nothing until 2022 when all your posts have been about the same thing. Just saying.

 

[Southlondon]

Yeh I'm still not seeing anything that allows you to honestly draw the conclusions that you did. And I think an apology's called for from yo

Yeh I'm still not seeing anything that allows you to honestly draw the conclusions that you did. And I think an apology's called for from you

Yeh I'm still not seeing anything that allows you to honestly draw the conclusions that you did. And I think an apology's called for from you

Apology for what?

 

[frogwoman]

If you're accusing me of being a supporter of the Ukrainian far right you're barking up the wrong tree to say the least

 

[Pickman's model]

Apology for what?

That’s where we differ then! I personally think fascists are scum not allies. You obviously relish war over borders and have no problem with paramilitary white supremacists as allies.
Would you stand shoulder to shoulder with C18 members if our borders were breeched? I am afraid I would rather watch them die

 

[Southlondon]

Its kinda weird that you joined in 2016, made about 5 posts and then nothing until 2022 when all your posts have been about the same thing. Just saying.

312 posts actually, across a range of subjects
Just saying

 

[Southlondon]

312 posts actually, across a range of subjects
Just saying

You are the one who pops up whenever AZOV are mentioned to chip in with how actually a lot of people are saying they aren’t really Nazis you saddo

 

[Pickman's model]

You are the one who pops up whenever AZOV are mentioned to chip in with how actually a lot of people are saying they aren’t really Nazis you saddo

Now you've started arguing with yourself

 

[Southlondon]

If you're accusing me of being a supporter of the Ukrainian far right you're barking up the wrong tree to say the

Now you've started arguing with yourself

Oops! That does deserve apology. It was meant for the frog woman