So you just have a go at me?
UK reaction / response to the invasion
- Thread starter Badgers
- Start date
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I would imagine so, yes.
After all, this is not an ideological conflict.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Where did I do that? I just called out your suggestion of sending troops into Ukraine.
You're the one giving out the personal insults
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not so sure about that
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Could make a good thread?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Make it so
I do get this I promise and trust me when I say I want peace. Have been in the Middle East for the UN and honestly hate the inhumanity of war.
Peacekeeping troops are not always 'peaceful' are they? But what else do people recommend?
Soft sanctions?
More disposable rocket launchers?
A strongly worded letter?
A show of strength and solidarity from the (so called) westerny democracy might change the Russian stance.
Have no beef with the people of Russia. They are not complicit in this mess. My mother is a Russian translator and I spent a lot of my young years sitting on a rug, eating Russian biscuits and listening to Russian people talking with my mum.
We have NO diplomats left in this country. NONE at all, so what's left? @
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I mean this is clearly (as it stands now anyway) not going to drag NATO into a wider conflict.
But what's the red line that might? Noises against Finland and/or Sweden if they join NATO? Actual invasion looking moves to their borders? A Baltic state invaded by deniable 'green men'? Nukes in Belarus with that lunatic talking about launching them? A battlefield nuke used by Russia in Ukraine?
Bet there's some frantic discussions going on somewhere...?
But what's the red line that might? Noises against Finland and/or Sweden if they join NATO? Actual invasion looking moves to their borders? A Baltic state invaded by deniable 'green men'? Nukes in Belarus with that lunatic talking about launching them? A battlefield nuke used by Russia in Ukraine?
Bet there's some frantic discussions going on somewhere...?
DO IT
With just the beer light to guide us?
ska invita
back on the other side
Do you think all that is a good thing?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I think it would have been a good thing if Ukraine had been so hard a target that Russia had stayed inside her borders.
No dead Ukrainians, no dead Russians.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
TBH doesn't take much training to use a helmet.
After the massive shambles that was it's coronavirus response, I think the EU has been outstanding in the way it's responding to this, standing together, applying sanctions, supplying weapons and aid and taking in refugees even if there has been a slight stain in the fact they seem less keen on any that might be of a duskier hue.
Our own Govt has been pretty piss poor though, it's attitude to financial sanctions seems to be geared more to cover its own arse should questions be asked about iffy donations from even iffier Russian businessmen.
Blustercunt gives the impression that he wants to claim some glory but doesn't want to do anything about it especially anything that has the teeniest chance of coming back on him, I wouldn't have thought my opinion of the cunt could sink any lower but once again he proves me wrong.
There is a strong difference in opinion in the Q household over this, I'm with the majority on this that we need to tread carefully lest we get dragged into a conflict that might very well escalate from one in which 10,000's are going to die to one in which 100's of millions are going to die. I'm opposed to a Nato NFZ but OK with sending them missiles and even slightly used Russian made jets.
Mrs Q on the other hand has turned out to be a lot more gung ho than I expected, she not only supports an NFZ but thinks NATO should bomb Russian convoys in Ukraine. Even after nearly 40 years that woman can still surprise me.
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I'm with Mrs Q here. It's becoming clear that Russia's military is bobbins, the world's #1 thief gave his generals trillions of roubles to upgrade their shit and amazingly they all now drive new Mercs and Porsches. Turkey shoot the 80km column, wtf can Putin do about it? Send his nukes over on a propeller plane? Fantasy missiles don't work irl.
ska invita
back on the other side
So you are saying we didn't arm them enough? And you think that wouldve solved the problem. Not enough Western weapons in Ukraine. And you dont think that wouldve been an even bigger provocation to Putin?
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Again, blundercunt's [nicking that !] response is far too little and far too late to stop the invasion itself. That's because the response in 2014 was far too weak.
Personally, I think the various former Warsaw Pact countries, like Ukraine, that have shown an interest in joining / associate membership of the EU & NATO should have been fast-tracked into an associateship status - initially, on a temporary basis.
The scope of the fairly feeble sanctions should be increased dramatically - both wider in terms of the topics covered, but also the number of people individually included.
The UN general assembly needs to vote for a) Putin & his troops to fuck off out of Ukraine
b) a NFZ & UN [NATO] peacekeepers
and c) Putin & Russia to pay for repairing all the damage caused to people, the environment and the infrastructure - domestic, commercial, communications, agriculture & industrial [& that includes rebuilding the An-225].
Next, any oligarch mansions should be used to house refugees ... and more assistance widely provided to areas currently hosting them. That included fast-tracking covid-19 vaccinations and other medical support. Checks - looking for security risks - can be done later.
Funds confiscated off oligarchs etc should be used in two ways - firstly to provide for refugees and secondly to pay for the required rebuilding.
Personally, I think the various former Warsaw Pact countries, like Ukraine, that have shown an interest in joining / associate membership of the EU & NATO should have been fast-tracked into an associateship status - initially, on a temporary basis.
The scope of the fairly feeble sanctions should be increased dramatically - both wider in terms of the topics covered, but also the number of people individually included.
The UN general assembly needs to vote for a) Putin & his troops to fuck off out of Ukraine
b) a NFZ & UN [NATO] peacekeepers
and c) Putin & Russia to pay for repairing all the damage caused to people, the environment and the infrastructure - domestic, commercial, communications, agriculture & industrial [& that includes rebuilding the An-225].
Next, any oligarch mansions should be used to house refugees ... and more assistance widely provided to areas currently hosting them. That included fast-tracking covid-19 vaccinations and other medical support. Checks - looking for security risks - can be done later.
Funds confiscated off oligarchs etc should be used in two ways - firstly to provide for refugees and secondly to pay for the required rebuilding.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I think that if Ukraine had a strong military, and the sanctions had been clearly spelt out, and the political shift within Europe - German rearmament, Sweden and Finland seriously thinking about NATO membership - in the event of an invasion had been clearly spelt out, all 6 months ago, then it's quite possible that Putin/the people around him would have decided that the game wasn't worth the candle.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Trouble is even if half putins nukes don't work they need constant maintenance and specialist skills. The 1990s were not good for Russia. The US has had issues with its nuke arsenal loss of very specifics skills etc etc. It would be aot worse for Russia.
That still leaves over 1000 nukes more than enough to fuck everyone.
Putin probably doesn't give a fuck about other people's children
That still leaves over 1000 nukes more than enough to fuck everyone.
Putin probably doesn't give a fuck about other people's children
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I‘ll believe it when I see it :
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bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
They're not rushing into it are they. It's just noise. I doubt many of those mansions are held in the name of the sanctioned oligarchs themselves, so there's delay upon delay in discovering the true beneficiaries of the trusts and shell companies that own them, even when everyone 'knows' who they really are.
Full FT article cited is free to read btw, as part of their Ukraine service
UK eyes seizing the property of oligarchs hit with sanctions
Ministers discuss plans to take residences off business tycoons without paying compensation
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Not sure what thread this fits best on so might as well go here, since it's probably not worth starting a "hitmouse's mad housemate sounds off" thread - had managed to avoid discussing the subject with my anti-vax housemate so far, since I know his opinions do tend towards the Putinist, but a third housemate brought it up this morning and we got the full list rolled out - denazification, Zelensky as a puppet of the US, Putin not wanting war and so on. He kept asking how many wars the US had started, apparently on the grounds that if I/we oppose the invasion of Ukraine then we must be in favour of the US invading places instead?
He is a very decent bloke as long as you stay away from the pandemic or geopolitics, though.
He is a very decent bloke as long as you stay away from the pandemic or geopolitics, though.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Building sanctions case against Abramovich and oligarchs ‘may take months’
Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against
www.thetimes.co.uk
"Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against them. The Foreign Office and National Crime Agency have been unable to prove that there are “reasonable grounds” for designating the UK’s most prominent oligarchs for sanctions because they have struggled to link their finances to the Putin regime.
Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, wants to sanction Abramovich but has been left frustrated after being told that the government has been unable to build up a case against him and others. The Times has been told that the crime agency previously attempted to build a case against Abramovich in 2018 but failed. Ministers have been warned that they could sue the government for millions if the decisions are made on a flawed basis.
Full article: archive.ph
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Idling wondering if the Boomers* are getting excited by the prospect of finally getting to send other people to fight in a proper war to make up for the one that finished just before they were born but bang on about all the time?
*I know #notallboomers. It's not an entirely serious question.
*I know #notallboomers. It's not an entirely serious question.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Can't Tom Burgis or Carole Cadwalladr give her a steer?Building sanctions case against Abramovich and oligarchs ‘may take months’
Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against
"Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against them. The Foreign Office and National Crime Agency have been unable to prove that there are “reasonable grounds” for designating the UK’s most prominent oligarchs for sanctions because they have struggled to link their finances to the Putin regime.
Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, wants to sanction Abramovich but has been left frustrated after being told that the government has been unable to build up a case against him and others. The Times has been told that the crime agency previously attempted to build a case against Abramovich in 2018 but failed. Ministers have been warned that they could sue the government for millions if the decisions are made on a flawed basis.
Full article: archive.ph
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
not sure you're understanding how this sanctions thing is done in britain, the point is to keep their friendship not grab their money
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Building sanctions case against Abramovich and oligarchs ‘may take months’
Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against
"Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for “weeks and months” because the government has been unable to build a case against them. The Foreign Office and National Crime Agency have been unable to prove that there are “reasonable grounds” for designating the UK’s most prominent oligarchs for sanctions because they have struggled to link their finances to the Putin regime.
Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, wants to sanction Abramovich but has been left frustrated after being told that the government has been unable to build up a case against him and others. The Times has been told that the crime agency previously attempted to build a case against Abramovich in 2018 but failed. Ministers have been warned that they could sue the government for millions if the decisions are made on a flawed basis.
Full article: archive.ph
They should be able to freeze his assets in the UK, AFAIK he's put Chelsea up for sale, friends of Putin should not be able to make off with the loot.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I suppose one person's "stringent laws to enable the swift seizure of foreigners' assets" is another person's "authoritarian over-reaching government". Perhaps the UK government's power's have been insufficient in this regard, or perhaps not.
Are any other European countries managing to effect the swift seizure of mansions belonging to Russians with no easy paper trail connecting them to Putin?
Are any other European countries managing to effect the swift seizure of mansions belonging to Russians with no easy paper trail connecting them to Putin?
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