Fascists, Fascism and the Invasion.

[LDC]

Following on about the standing ovation given to the Ukrainian who fought in the Waffen SS by the Canadian Parliament here's an article about how these Nazis came to Canada

"What little we know of their war record is bad,” wrote Beryl Hughes, who was handling the issue for Britain’s Home Office. “We’re still hoping to get rid of the less desirable Ukrainian PoWs either to Germany or Canada,” Hughes added in another note in 1948."

The RCAF Officer Who Brought Hitler’s Waffen SS to Canada — espritdecorps

By David Pugliese In May both the Globe and Mail newspaper and CBC’s As It Happens radio show carried laudatory reports about a Royal Canadian Air Force veteran and his efforts to bring Ukrainian refugees to Canada in the aftermath of the Second World War. Flight Lt. Bohdan Panchuk was the ma

espritdecorps.ca

Novara covers it on their recent show, sounds like a total spontaneous fuck-up by the Canadian speaker of the House who's since apologised and now resigned.

 

[phildwyer]

Novara covers it on their recent show, sounds like a total spontaneous fuck-up by the Canadian speaker of the House who's since apologised and now resigned.

All the idiots who applauded should resign too.

 

[The39thStep]

Novara covers it on their recent show, sounds like a total spontaneous fuck-up by the Canadian speaker of the House who's since apologised and now resigned.

The fact that members of the house applauded when they heard the words 'war hero who fought against the Russians during the second world war without computing what side he was on if he was fighting the Russians during the second world war ' says more than just a spontaneous fuck up by the speaker tbh.

Poland are asking for his extradition

 

[LDC]

The fact that members of the house applauded when they heard the words 'war hero who fought against the Russians during the second world war without computing what side he was on if he was fighting the Russians during the second world war ' says more than just a spontaneous fuck up by the speaker tbh.

Poland are asking for his extradition

I mean they're fucking idiots, but I think a fuck-up overlaid with ignorance and people just following the crowd is most likely, I think reading more into it that that is unfounded. Suspect much the same would have happened in plenty of other settings don't you? Unless you think they actually knew they were applauding a Nazi?

 

[The39thStep]

I mean they're fucking idiots, but I think a fuck-up overlaid with ignorance and people just following the crowd is most likely, I think reading more into it that that is unfounded. Suspect much the same would have happened in plenty of other settings don't you? Unless you think they actually knew they were applauding a Nazi?

No , I didn't suggest that they knew that they were applauding a Nazi . However, I did say that this is more than a spontaneous fuck up by the Speaker which was your explanation.

A climate of Liberal tribalism where anything Ukrainian is good , and anything Russian is bad may provide some explanation as to the Canadian Parliament's reaction. Whatever the reason its utterly appalling.

 

[LDC]

...Liberal tribalism where anything Ukrainian is good , and anything Russian is bad may provide some explanation as to the Canadian Parliament's reaction. Whatever the reason its utterly appalling.

Ah yeah, I was just putting that under the ahistorical ignorance banner tbh.

 

[phildwyer]

I reckon l'affaire Hunka will prove the turning point for Western public opinion. It's the perfect teaching tool to educate people about the history of Ukrainian fascism.

 

[The39thStep]

I reckon l'affaire Hunka will prove the turning point for Western public opinion. It's the perfect teaching tool to educate people about the history of Ukrainian fascism.

Very difficult to learn about the history of Ukrainian fascism from his wiki page which is now under threat of deletion after a revision and editing war.

 

[phildwyer]

Very difficult to learn about the history of Ukrainian fascism from his wiki page which is now under threat of deletion after a revision and editing war.

I can just imagine. But they're not finished with him yet. Poland apparently want to put him on trial, and presumably it would be broadcast worldwide, live and direct.

 

[The39thStep]

I can just imagine. But they're not finished with him yet. Poland apparently want to put him on trial, and presumably it would be broadcast worldwide, live and direct.

Whilst I would welcome any prosecutions of those whose units were involved in war crimes whilst fighting as part of the Nazis , I suspect that the threat of putting him on trial is just part of
the Poland/Ukrainian fallout over wheat exports tbh.

 

[PTK]

The fact that members of the house applauded when they heard the words 'war hero who fought against the Russians during the second world war without computing what side he was on if he was fighting the Russians during the second world war ' says more than just a spontaneous fuck up by the speaker tbh.

Poland are asking for his extradition

There has been a concerted attempt since the end of the Cold War to re-write history, and it seems that Canadian MPs have succumbed to it.

 

[PTK]

It’s too easy to label people “Nazi”, as this video demonstrates.

 

[The39thStep]

Canada Nazi row puts spotlight on Ukraine's WWII past

For decades, Jewish groups have criticised monuments that celebrate Ukrainian veterans in Canada.

www.bbc.com

Article from the BBC on the Nazis that were allowed into Canada. Its attempt to be safe and even handed makes this look like its only Jewish organisations that object to the Bandera supporters, the erection of statues and the invitation where as historically Uktainain far right nationalism has been contested not just by Jewish organisations but by ex veterans, anti fascists and within the Ukrainian community In Canada over the years.

Diaspora influence​

Many of the displaced Ukrainians who came to Canada after WWII were refugees from Western Ukraine, particularly the Volhyn and Galicia regions, which were the hotbeds of the UPA support.

“So of course that group of people, that generation and their offspring they’ve been raised in this culture,” says Rudling. “They’ve been going to Saturday school, they’ve been performing rituals in front of these monuments, they grew up with this narration of history and to them it’s tradition, culture and I don’t think they didn’t have much reason to reflect upon this.”

Ukrainian intellectuals who were tied to the OUN had a very powerful influence on the life of the community in Canada, says Himka.

“With time all the other tendencies – because there were leftist tendencies, more liberal tendencies – they have pretty much disappeared,” says Himka. “And a lot of the community organizations are headed by the Bandera faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.”

It is that part of the community, represented by the Ukrainian Canadian Congress that build the Shukhevych statue in Edmonton and has been pushing for a revisionist view of the OUN’s and UPA’s wartime record, says Himka.

“They have an agenda about their own history,” says Himka. “They want to have a monopoly over what is said about Ukrainian history.”

These Diaspora groups also support the nationalist right in Ukraine and whitewash the WWII history of their movement, says Himka.

“They are very much involved in promoting victimization narratives: the Ukrainian internment during WWI in Canada, the Great Famine (Holodomor) of 1932-33,” says Himka.

“These are the kind of things they really want to drive into the heads of the community so that kids sort of think their grandparents suffered this, although most Ukrainians who came to Canada were not from where the famine was.”

From Canadian monument to controversial Ukrainian national hero ignites debate


Banderite supporters were physically active against anti-fascist Ukrainians in Canada , in one case bombing down a social centre used by left wing Ukranians in 1950

 

[Pickman's model]

The fact that members of the house applauded when they heard the words 'war hero who fought against the Russians during the second world war without computing what side he was on if he was fighting the Russians during the second world war ' says more than just a spontaneous fuck up by the speaker tbh.

Poland are asking for his extradition

not as easy as that as ww2 divides into two sections - 1) from 3 sept 1939 to 22 june 1941; 2) 22 june 1941 to 8 may 1945. in the first, the ussr was at peace with if not actually allied to the third reich. during that time fighting the russians as finns, poles, latvians, lithuanians and estonians did might be considered one thing, while in the second period such actions might be viewed rather differently

 

[The39thStep]

not as easy as that as ww2 divides into two sections - 1) from 3 sept 1939 to 22 june 1941; 2) 22 june 1941 to 8 may 1945. in the first, the ussr was at peace with if not actually allied to the third reich. during that time fighting the russians as finns, poles, latvians, lithuanians and estonians did might be considered one thing, while in the second period such actions might be viewed rather differently

The unit that he fought in, the 'Galician' or 14th Division of the Waffen SS was formed in 1943. The International Military Tribunal verdict at the Nuremberg Trials declared the the entire Waffen-SS organisation as a criminal organization guilty of war crimes.

 

[Pickman's model]

The unit that he fought in, the 'Galician' or 14th Division of the Waffen SS was formed in 1943. The International Military Tribunal verdict at the Nuremberg Trials declared the the entire Waffen-SS organisation as a criminal organization guilty of war crimes.

yeh obvs the waffen ss. but simply saying 'wrong to fight the russians in ww2' covers a period in which it could be right too

 

[The39thStep]

yeh obvs the waffen ss. but simply saying 'wrong to fight the russians in ww2' covers a period in which it could be right too

Yes the Soviet rule pre mid 1941 was brutal . However, the OUN who collaborated with the Nazis pre 1941 as well as after were not just fighting the Russians. The OUM was hugely influenced by fascist ideology and wanted an ethically pure Ukraine. For them, the Jews were also the enemy who in their belief backed the Soviets. This pre 1941 anti-Semitism helps to explain the involvement of Ukrainians whipped up by the nationalists in the massacre of the Jews in Lviv in July 1941 weeks after the Russians had departed.

So in theory could be right but in practise the fight against the Russians in Ukraine was led by a fascist organisation who also saw it as a fight against the Jews.

edited: OUN not OUM

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes the Soviet rule pre mid 1941 was brutal . However, the OUM who collaborated with the Nazis pre 1941 as well as after were not just fighting the Russians. The OUM was hugely influenced by fascist ideology and wanted an ethically pure Ukraine. For them, the Jews were also the enemy who in their belief backed the Soviets. This pre 1941 anti-Semitism helps to explain the involvement of Ukrainians whipped up by the nationalists in the massacre of the Jews in Lviv in July 1941 weeks after the Russians had departed.

So in theory could be right but in practise the fight against the Russians in Ukraine was led by a fascist organisation who also saw it as a fight against the Jews.

Yes, thus more criteria than simply who you fought needed, as you say on what basis important too.

 

[phildwyer]

not as easy as that as ww2 divides into two sections - 1) from 3 sept 1939 to 22 june 1941; 2) 22 june 1941 to 8 may 1945. in the first, the ussr was at peace with if not actually allied to the third reich. during that time fighting the russians as finns, poles, latvians, lithuanians and estonians did might be considered one thing, while in the second period such actions might be viewed rather differently

Just being a member of the SS is a war crime, doesn't matter what you did.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just being a member of the SS is a war crime, doesn't matter what you did.

thank you for your utterly irrelevant and tardy response. but it is refreshing to see one of your posts devoid of misogyny and conspiraloonery

 

[The39thStep]

If anyone is interested there is a podcast interview with Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe who has written just about the only really comprehensive book on Bandera and the OUM .

 

[keybored]

Bandera and the OUM

He never struck me as that type.

 

[The39thStep]

One less

 

[The39thStep]

 

[The39thStep]

 

[The39thStep]

Patch for the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade who were sent in to assist the retreat from Avdiivka

 

[TopCat]

Patch for the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade who were sent in to assist the retreat from Avdiivka

View attachment 412788

Surprised they would issue this after abandoning their wounded on the retreat

 

[The39thStep]

Surprised they would issue this after abandoning their wounded on the retreat

BBC article on allegations that some of the wounded were killed by Russians and criticism by AFU soldiers that requests to retreat earlier were ignored by their commanders. Sounds like a nightmare.

Avdiivka: Russia accused of executing prisoners of war after Ukraine withdraws

The BBC speaks to relatives after video shows bodies of soldiers who are believed to have surrendered.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TopCat]

BBC article on allegations that some of the wounded were killed by Russians and criticism by AFU soldiers that requests to retreat earlier were ignored by their commanders. Sounds like a nightmare.

Avdiivka: Russia accused of executing prisoners of war after Ukraine withdraws

The BBC speaks to relatives after video shows bodies of soldiers who are believed to have surrendered.

www.bbc.co.uk

Totally. A nightmare. Time for a new fash badge?

 

[discokermit]

not the first time fascists have put her head in a noose.

Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org