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Fascists, Fascism and the Invasion.

nogojones said:
This is the thread for it. For fascists of both sides.

There is however quite a lot of drift from a couple of posters who's only real concern seems to be Azov and the Ukrainian far right, as though they are the predominant problem in Ukraine at the moment and their only contribution to the Ukrainian forms seems to be pointing out the Ukrainian fascist threat. Then using this to argue that shouldn't be armed, or should just stop fighting, because Russia will win in the end, so suck it up.

There maybe people who also underplay their influence, but that's possibly because they are focused on the slightly bigger problem that is currently happening.
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Think you're making that middle bit up, or else seeing what you want to see.
 
nogojones said:
This is the thread for it. For fascists of both sides.

There is however quite a lot of drift from a couple of posters who's only real concern seems to be Azov and the Ukrainian far right, as though they are the predominant problem in Ukraine at the moment and their only contribution to the Ukrainian forms seems to be pointing out the Ukrainian fascist threat. Then using this to argue that shouldn't be armed, or should just stop fighting, because Russia will win in the end, so suck it up.

There maybe people who also underplay their influence, but that's possibly because they are focused on the slightly bigger problem that is currently happening.
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Tbf I haven’t seen many that argue explicitly no arms to Ukraine because of the fash tbh. Although there was a position of some countries before the actual war started of arms to Ukraine but not to Azov .

What I have noticed though , since the war , across is a complete reversal of the previous 8 years coverage of the far right in Ukraine .At first a polite silence , then some into denial ( in case it hurts the war effort) and in some cases almost a rehabilitation of them as ‘ patriots ‘ and ‘nationalists’ . This has on occasions extended to coverage of Stefan Bandera applauding his opposition to the USSR whilst whitewashing what he is best remembered for .

Whether or not some are focussed on bigger issues the attitude to the Wagner group and other fash on the Russian side doesn’t fall thankfully into the same trap .
 
RD2003 said:
Amazing (or perhaps not) how people have let their emotions take over with regard to this war, when they don't usually do this about any of the many other, equally repugnant and horrific wars that constantly erupt around the world. It seems to be the only war currently going on (or perhaps ever) where an totally uncritical view of the 'acceptable' side is universally deemed compulsory.
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What people? According to who?
 
RD2003 said:
Amazing (or perhaps not) how people have let their emotions take over with regard to this war, when they don't usually do this about any of the many other, equally repugnant and horrific wars that constantly erupt around the world. It seems to be the only war currently going on (or perhaps ever) where an totally uncritical view of the 'acceptable' side is universally deemed compulsory.
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you must number yourself among this crew, being as god knows there's nothing rational behind the position you've chosen to assume
 
Dystopiary said:
Of course you do, and you couldn't be more wrong. To the point of offensive.
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Perhaps I ought to make it clear: if somebody purports to be offended by my expressing an opinion by what is, in the end, something which isn't personal to those whom I am addressing, I don't care.

What is so bad about being offended anyway? After all, you're just offended. Nothing else happens.

Personally speaking, I'm offended by the world in general every time I open my fucking eyes in the morning.

I won't keep you further, however-you've no doubt got some Ukrainians to be talking to.
 
RD2003 said:
What is so bad about being offended anyway? After all, you're just offended. Nothing else happens.
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RD2003 yesterday

maxresdefault.jpg
 
Another Portuguese fash turns up in Ukraine

1653935480084.png

The 'nurse' turns out to be ex Chega member Ana Cristina Cardoso who went to Ukraine with registered fascist Mário Machado. She was a member of the neo-Nazi organization Nova Ordem Social and one of the organizers of the infamous night march of masks and torches, KKK-style, in front of the headquarters of SOS Racismo.

As my Portuguese left wing friend said ( she sent me the links) ' God hopes that Ukraine resists but gets rid of these fuckers '


1653935734350.png
1653935860216.png
 
Russia will televise the trial of Avoz soldiers that surrendered apparently. Already seen footage of fash tattoos a plenty on them.
 
Oh dear…

www.themoscowtimes.com

Russian State Media War Reporter Defends Nazi Tattoos - The Moscow Times

A Russian journalist covering Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine for state media has said that he “doesn’t regret” his time in a far-right group after being pictured with Nazi tattoos. Gleb Erve currently covers the conflict — which the Kremlin claims was launched to “denazify Ukraine” — for the...
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
A Russian journalist covering Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine for state media has said that he “doesn’t regret” his time in a far-right group after being pictured with Nazi tattoos.

Gleb Erve currently covers the conflict — which the Kremlin claims was launched to “denazify Ukraine” — for the state-run RIA Novosti news agency.

Ukrainian news outlet Kyivskaya Pravda published images showing fascist and nazist symbols tattooed on Erve’s head and arm. They are the emblem of the Italian National Fascist Party tattooed on the back of his head and the Algiz, or Life rune, widely used in Nazi Germany, on his hand.

Writing on the Telegram messaging app, Erve did not deny having the tattoos but said he left the far-right three years ago after feeling “disappointed” in the movement.

“Do I regret this story? No. Simply because it was an experience, a very unusual one,” Erve said in an interview with the state-run news outlet Sputnik.

He also claimed that his background helped him interview captives from Ukraine’s Azov Battalion — a group with far-right roots that has since been incorporated into the Ukrainian military — and search for “nationalist” literature in Ukraine.

Before joining RIA Novosti, Erve worked at a Moscow tattoo salon alongside Andrei Dedov, an ally of Russian Nazi activist Maxim “Tesak” Martsinkevich, Novaya Gazeta Europe later reported.

Martsinkevich has been charged twice with inciting ethnic or racial hatred, while unconfirmed reports have linked Dedov to several murder cases.
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RD2003 said:
How many people on here or in the real world, are 'listening to Ukrainians?' I suspect you mean uncritically swallowing the line of the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian elites. After all, they are the only Ukrainians most of us hear from.
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I don't know which part of the "real world" you live in, but there are a lot of non-elite Ukrainians in my bit and I'd have to plug my ears and abandon social media not to hear from them. They hate Putin and support the resistance, even the Russian speakers from the Donbas.

Even on the bus to work I've heard kids talking about what's happening to their grandparents.
 
tim said:
I don't know which part of the "real world" you live in, but there are a lot of non-elite Ukrainians in my bit and I'd have to plug my ears and abandon social media not to hear from them. They hate Putin and support the resistance, even the Russian speakers from the Donbas.

Even on the bus to work I've heard kids talking about what's happening to their grandparents.
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I have known a number of Ukrainians living here for years. All of them are from eastern Ukrainian, didn't used to much differentiate themselves from Russians (although local Russians and Ukranians, it seems to me, ceased socialising, or even speaking to each other, some years ago.) None of them spoke Ukrainian fluently or even at all. Having been raised in the ex-USSR, and therefore unused to the open expression of political choices, a number of these have been politically all over the place since coming to live here. Don't know how general this is. That's when they have shown any interest in politics at all. One or two acquaintances now seem to place themselves on the pro-EU liberal left after years of half-hearted racism, bigotry and 'more British than the British,' patriotism, probably in line with developments at home.

Again in my experience, there is a marked difference between Ukrainians who have been here for decades and their descendents, and those raised in the ex-USSR. At one time they didn't seem to even get on. I've heard ex-Soviet Ukrainians, who were raised in major cities, condemn the long-term British Ukrainians as ignorant country bumpkins who haven't altered a bit for living here. This is very much in line with how the Soviet population viewed the peasantry. Having myself lived for extended periods in Moscow in the late 1980s and early '90s, I would say all of them are, in essence, far more 'Soviet' than they would like you to believe, and are, in my estimation, likely to remain so. I am sure that the long-termers and the more recent arrivals are now all at one in being anti-Russian, though.

However, I do probably need to get out more . I will have to find out which bus routes round here are most likely to carry random Ukrainians, all engaged in feverish political discussion, and report back.
 
AmateurAgitator said:
I doubt I'll be buying one of his books.
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it's by no means the best book in the world, it's not the best book by someone on the right. but it is one of the few mass market books i've seen which deals with waterloo etc from a frankly fash viewpoint, where it's strangely not a defeat as the gig went ahead. it's useful for seeing things from their pov and since you can lay your hands on a secondhand copy for a few quid (look on bookfinder.com) it won't bust the bank. to my mind it's foolish to say 'i won't read that because it's by a fascist' because a) you won't defeat them if you don't know what and how they think, and b) sometimes the only book on a subject is by a fascist, such as arthur kemp's 'victory or violence: the history of the awb of south africa' or rob black and hugh mcneile's history of the league of empire loyalists
 
Pickman's model said:
it's by no means the best book in the world, it's not the best book by someone on the right. but it is one of the few mass market books i've seen which deals with waterloo etc from a frankly fash viewpoint, where it's strangely not a defeat as the gig went ahead. it's useful for seeing things from their pov and since you can lay your hands on a secondhand copy for a few quid (look on bookfinder.com) it won't bust the bank. to my mind it's foolish to say 'i won't read that because it's by a fascist' because a) you won't defeat them if you don't know what and how they think, and b) sometimes the only book on a subject is by a fascist, such as arthur kemp's 'victory or violence: the history of the awb of south africa' or rob black and hugh mcneile's history of the league of empire loyalists
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Yeah thats fair enough. I could, potentially, get a secondhand copy yeah. And I think we should understand the psychology of fascists aswell.
 
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