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England vs Slovenia, 8pm (ITV)

Disaster for England, topping the group unbeaten.


Horrible scenario, though. Slovenia through with a draw. A real game of who cares at the end.

You don't need to impress early doors. Just ask Portugal.

tbh you don't need to impress full stop. Just ask Greece.
 
I didn't think it was that bad overall. Not that bad in the second half, some signs for optimism. No where near enough to be throwing cups at the manager anyway... some fans have a real nerve.

I hope that they can up the pace and the aggression for the next game. More urgency. They have the talent. If it's Netherlands I think they'll struggle without the taller players in the squad.. even missing Maguire a little bit.

We are jammy as fuck that we are missing out on the Portugal France Spain Germany branch. But it does just mean we could get knocked out by some fairly minor team.. or go far and then get absolutely thrashed by top opposition.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Disaster for England, topping the group unbeaten.


Horrible scenario, though. Slovenia through with a draw. A real game of who cares at the end.

You don't need to impress early doors. Just ask Portugal.

tbh you don't need to impress full stop. Just ask Greece.
Click to expand...
As a foreign resident, the toxicity ingrained in the England supporter community and even the country’s media is mind boggling. I genuinely reckon they would have got at least a couple of more tournaments since 66 if the public and media perception, expectations, and treatment of the team was like, erm, well, just about every other country on Earth. At least save the vitriol for after they’ve gone out ffs.

And to anyone tempted to retort that the current squad has brilliant talent and is drastically underperforming, which is true on the whole, this kind of attitude has always existed and popped out through the decades, including times when the squad’s quality was nowhere near as good and the team nowhere near favourites to win. Not that the venom seen now is justified anyway, however underperforming they have been.
 
T & P said:
As a foreign resident, the toxicity ingrained in the England supporter community and even the country’s media is mind boggling. I genuinely reckon they would have got at least a couple of more tournaments since 66 if the public and media perception, expectations, and treatment of the team was like, erm, well, just about every other country on Earth. At least save the vitriol for after they’ve gone out ffs.

And to anyone tempted to retort that the current squad has brilliant talent and is drastically underperforming, which is true on the whole, this kind of attitude has always existed and popped out through the decades, including times when the squad’s quality was nowhere near as good and the team nowhere near favourites to win. Not that the venom seen now is justified anyway, however underperforming they have been.
Click to expand...

They look defensively solid, if a bit underwhelming in terms of entertainment so far. But yeah, the assumption that we have the best players and should bat these group games away as a joke is flawed. And that anything less is supposedly a national embarrasment and a let down is fucked up. The manager and the group seem to know this. If anything they are more down to earth than previous iterations and resist the bullshit.

If you look at the line up it's arguably fairly strong, but not amazing. You see ability but you see that arguably moreso in quite a few other squads at this tournament. The Premier League hype sqews England's position and chances.
 
Riklet said:
I didn't think it was that bad overall. Not that bad in the second half, some signs for optimism. No where near enough to be throwing cups at the manager anyway... some fans have a real nerve.

I hope that they can up the pace and the aggression for the next game. More urgency. They have the talent. If it's Netherlands I think they'll struggle without the taller players in the squad.. even missing Maguire a little bit.

We are jammy as fuck that we are missing out on the Portugal France Spain Germany branch. But it does just mean we could get knocked out by some fairly minor team.. or go far and then get absolutely thrashed by top opposition.
Click to expand...

T & P said:
As a foreign resident, the toxicity ingrained in the England supporter community and even the country’s media is mind boggling. I genuinely reckon they would have got at least a couple of more tournaments since 66 if the public and media perception, expectations, and treatment of the team was like, erm, well, just about every other country on Earth. At least save the vitriol for after they’ve gone out ffs.

And to anyone tempted to retort that the current squad has brilliant talent and is drastically underperforming, which is true on the whole, this kind of attitude has always existed and popped out through the decades, including times when the squad’s quality was nowhere near as good and the team nowhere near favourites to win. Not that the venom seen now is justified anyway, however underperforming they have been.
Click to expand...

Reading through the thread and was about to comment, but these 2 posts basically say exactly what I was about to.

Spot on :thumbs:

Sat in the pub earlier post-match listening to conversations and you'd genuinely think we'd bombed out of the tournament without a win, some people's takes are baffling.
 
The Octagon said:
Reading through the thread and was about to comment, but these 2 posts basically say exactly what I was about to.

Spot on :thumbs:

Sat in the pub earlier post-match listening to conversations and you'd genuinely think we'd bombed out of the tournament without a win, some people's takes are baffling.
Click to expand...
Slovenia are 52 places below us in the rankings.
We should not have failed to beat them.
 
Pickford- Plays for the Ev. Not in the top bracket. Bit limited.

Trippier- not exactly a heavyweight. I thought Gomez would do better. Experienced but limited.

Guehi - Done well but a bit of a Rookie. Plays for Crystal Palace. Like the others has not really won anything.

Walker - Experienced but doesn't show much leadership.

Stones - Anonymous senior player.

Rice - No real star quality.

Gallagher - ?

Foden - Throw another City player in. Premier league champion. Not found his role, arguably on the manager.

Saka - Young fast skillful, has never actually won fuck all.

Kane - Good finisher and all rounder. Isolated without support.

Bellingham - Hyped up 20 year old. Good for Real Madrid but this team is no Real Madrid.
 
Monte said:
Slovenia are 52 places below us in the rankings.
We should not have failed to beat them.
Click to expand...
Man United struggled to beat Coventry City and Newport County in the FA Cup last season before beating arguably the best team in the world in the final.

Just don’t worry about it, this is the kind of daft shit that happens.
 
I mean they finished top, so they've been efficient really, can't finish higher so why put in more effort. And teams in the knockouts will probably be complacent against us. Maybe it's a great long game.

Still not interesting to watch though.
 
The Octagon said:
Reading through the thread and was about to comment, but these 2 posts basically say exactly what I was about to.

Spot on :thumbs:

Sat in the pub earlier post-match listening to conversations and you'd genuinely think we'd bombed out of the tournament without a win, some people's takes are baffling.
Click to expand...
I was obviously taking a lot of shots at the team/performance, and do feel I went a bit overboard. As I say, that was mostly because I was bored and cracking wise on low-hanging fruit is a restaurant where I absolutely have a habit of overindulging.

Though I'll stand by a fair bit of the underlying sentiment (it was boring, and there's a difference between finding it hard to break down an organised team and rarely even making that team uncomfortable), it is an odd situation to be in where England have just topped their group unbeaten, in a tournament where they were finalists last time, and have people calling "Southgate out".

Again, I do think there are legitimate criticisms to be levelled at him, and some of the recent performances, but... saying he deserves to be fired in this scenario is clearly plain daft.

Also, not a fan of booing, throwing stuff, etc, and wholeheartedly agree that this country still has some seriously problematic relationships with it's national football team, in all kinds of directions.
 
T & P said:
As a foreign resident, the toxicity ingrained in the England supporter community and even the country’s media is mind boggling. I genuinely reckon they would have got at least a couple of more tournaments since 66 if the public and media perception, expectations, and treatment of the team was like, erm, well, just about every other country on Earth. At least save the vitriol for after they’ve gone out ffs.
Click to expand...
BOOOOO! Throws cup*
 
www.theguardian.com

Conor Gallagher the fretful fall guy in England’s midfield tragedy | Barney Ronay

With brains and calm required, the Chelsea man produced one of the most edgy, weird displays you’re likely to see
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Quite funny.
He needs to start Mainoo. And maybe Palmer. Why he brings all these players and is so slow to change things I do not know. Make all the excuses you like but he has a very good squad and the football is awful and the results not much better.
 
this was an interesting watch....basically says fans AND pundits dont understand modern football tactics, which have changed drastically in recent years



...if players are "slow " when playing it from the back thats a subtle attempt to to open up spaces elsewhere and a sign of football intelligence

...instead of running past people its increasingly important to get the defender to move first....

....in top flight football if you have , say, a winger who doesnt get a touch of the ball but is making runs and movements which draw a defender with them, thats been carefully planned as a way to open up a space elsewhere on the pitch..

etc etc etc
basically football is much more chess like now and people expecting the ball booted upfield and chased a la Great British Football of the past are going to be disappointed and confused.

Id go as far as saying modern prem football has got a bit boring in comparison to the past. Players are "better", fitter, more organised, but the entertainment experience for fans has got worse, and thats because of tactics and strategy.

Players are trained to only have three or four options of what to do with the ball when they get it, and those options are drilled day in day out. No one just says, fuck it Im going to take everyone on, like Maradona would do
 
That's the Man City approach isn't it, why they've been so successful. I've only seen them play one whole game this season (the final) and it was boring as fuck.

I don't actually mind if England lose as long as they play attractive football.
 
two sheds said:
That's the Man City approach isn't it, why they've been so successful. I've only seen them play one whole game this season (the final) and it was boring as fuck.

I don't actually mind if England lose as long as they play attractive football.
Click to expand...
Yes, Pep is given a lot of credit for this, but its become pervasive and in the video you've got trainers saying this is being taught to young children...its getting deeply embedded....and there was a lot of it in England's performance I think.

As to
two sheds said:
I don't actually mind if England lose as long as they play attractive football.
Click to expand...
Yes , thats how I feel about Spurs, and we've got that now with Ange , as opposed to Conte. In fact Spurs were used as an example of not doing "modern tactics" properly - giving too many turnovers.
 
ska invita said:
Yes, Pep is given a lot of credit for this, but its become pervasive and in the video you've got trainers saying this is being taught to young children...its getting deeply embedded....and there was a lot of it in England's performance I think.

As to

Yes , thats how I feel about Spurs, and we've got that now with Ange , as opposed to Conte. In fact Spurs were used as an example of not doing "modern tactics" properly - giving too many turnovers.
Click to expand...

Or, at least, we had it for the first third of last season.
 
One of the great things about England supporters is their insistence that any player in the national squad from their own club should be playing.
 
ska invita said:
this was an interesting watch....basically says fans AND pundits dont understand modern football tactics, which have changed drastically in recent years



...if players are "slow " when playing it from the back thats a subtle attempt to to open up spaces elsewhere and a sign of football intelligence

...instead of running past people its increasingly important to get the defender to move first....
Click to expand...

Spurs are a good example of this. The attacking play is blood and thunder at 100mph, but whenever we're in possession it always starts with passing between the goalkeeper and centre backs, and if an attack isn't going anywhere the ball gets recycled back to start again.

The idea is to always get at least a couple of opponents to leave their set, structured positions and find themselves ahead of the ball. The modern terminology I believe is "beating the press" - the slow, laboured possession draws the opposition forwards &/or attacking midfielders out into a press which you can then pass around if you've got midfielders who can see a pass around the corner (which is why modern formations get as many players in the centre of midfield as possible to give passing options, like City bringing Stones up or Spurs using both fullbacks).

Man City do it brilliantly, Spurs do it well most of the time, England pass it around at the back for 10 minutes and don't go anywhere with it.
 
ska invita said:
basically football is much more chess like now and people expecting the ball booted upfield and chased a la Great British Football of the past are going to be disappointed and confused.

Id go as far as saying modern prem football has got a bit boring in comparison to the past. Players are "better", fitter, more organised, but the entertainment experience for fans has got worse, and thats because of tactics and strategy.
Click to expand...
Sounds a bit like modern Formula 1, where it's all about calculations on tyre degradation and pitstop timing rather than actual on-track racing.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Man City do it brilliantly, Spurs do it well most of the time, England pass it around at the back for 10 minutes and don't go anywhere with it.
Click to expand...
TBF It does rely on the opposition wanting to actually score a goal, which Slovenia clearly did not give a fuck about yesterday
 
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