Bitcoin discussion and news

[camouflage]

I stopped posting on this thread for awhile, mainly because I don't want to end up just proselytizing for bitcoin. I felt JWH's posts put me only in that position, cornered by the same three dimensions (it won't work, it's not real, why should anyone bother). It brings to mind a quote by Ursula LeGuin "To resist is to maintain". I seek to no longer maintain this pattern of me flogging bitcoin post after post.

You see, there are wider issues about deflationary cryptocurrency that I find interesting and would like to discuss, but more and more I felt I had just become a bitcoin spam-bot. So concepts like whether an anarchic form of money that is deflationary and therefore not based on debt, as fiat currency is, can be inherently more sustainable in terms of our life here on a finite planet, seemed less and less likely to be engaged with.

There were other ideas too, I can't remember them now, but they were interesting speculations, honest.

Anyway, this thread is just me and JWH going back and forth in an ever decreasing spiral of insular disagreement. Pointless.

Come to think of it, all my threads are a bit pants that way. But JWH, as you think bitcoins specifically will never fly, please go here:
http://freebitcoins.appspot.com/

And send the free bitcoins to this address:
1EaAfbamZKC39jUZyfeEgW8Fy7YYqQYVsF

I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you, that is all.

 

[camouflage]

The killer app is clearly tax avoidence, money laundering and black market transactions, taking the place of the late lamented e-gold. Unlike e-gold, it's decentralised, so can't easily be taken down - it's freenet/tor, to e-gold's napster. At it's peak, ie before the feds stamped on it, e-gold's reserves were worth around half a billion dollars.

snip



(I in no way condone the use of bitcoin for the purchase of illegal material).

Beware of Machine Elves.

 

[Crispy]

Sorry, promoting websites that sell illegal drugs is not permitted here.

 

[camouflage]

Fair play, I removed the link but forgot not to include the title of the site in the image.

 

[grit]

I wanted to post this in politics but was concerned it was too geeky.




Its a fascinating idea and there are already businesses doing conversion between BTC - USD/GBP/EUR

 

[Santino]

There's a couple of threads about this already started by camouflage who seems a bit obsessed about the whole thing.

 

[DotCommunist]

currency of choice for freemen on the land.

 

[grit]

I think its kinda sad a lot of people dont seem as excited as myself about the idea, it could do amazing things if it grows correctly.

 

[Santino]

I think its kinda sad a lot of people dont seem as excited as myself about the idea, it could do amazing things if it grows correctly.

Like what?

 

[DotCommunist]

the best way to defeat the Man with his banks and his taxes is to have secret internet currency santino.

 

[grit]

the best way to defeat the Man with his banks and his taxes is to have secret internet currency santino.

Exactly, remove those cunts out of the equation.

 

[Corax]

I think its kinda sad a lot of people dont seem as excited as myself about the idea, it could do amazing things if it grows correctly.

If they want to get more interest then they need to tell people before what the problem is as well as presenting the solution.

 

[camouflage]

There's a couple of threads about this already started by camouflage who seems a bit obsessed about the whole thing.

Yeah I stopped posting about it in the end, all that wild-eyed lone-voice in the wilderness stuff was getting boring, so I thought I'd shut up about it. Also I got a bit put off by all the Anarcho-capitalist/Libertardian types haunting the thing. I don't think the inventor/s is a Randroid but they've certainly flocked to the idea. More state-loving socialist type representation would be nice but ho-hum. Anyway I stick it on the pile with my other intensely private interests and collections that I never share with anybody ever.

The spin-off big idea by the way is a peer-to-peer domain name registration system that does away with the likes of ICANN and Nominet etc.

 

[camouflage]

I think its kinda sad a lot of people dont seem as excited as myself about the idea, it could do amazing things if it grows correctly.

Welcome to the 1%, you have The Gene maaan.

 

[Santino]

Exactly, remove those cunts out of the equation.

Yes, we need to replace our under-regulated banking system with a completely non-regulated system! The Invisible Hand will help us!

 

[grit]

If they want to get more interest then they need to tell people before what the problem is as well as presenting the solution.

How can I quickly and easily send you 20 pounds without someone taking a cut from it, right now online? Added bonus points it can be anonymous and due to the decentralised nature the banks cant bully you. For example paypal stopping wikileaks donations.

Its essentially digital "cash" if you want an analogy.

 

[grit]

Yes, we need to replace our under-regulated banking system with a completely non-regulated system! The Invisible Hand will help us!

Its not non regulated, if fact its the exact opposite. Difference is the regulation is not people, its the algorithm that self corrects. Its really quite a beautiful idea (some ideas are similar to a torrent).

 

[Santino]

I do actually think they might be scope for a sort of Betfair of banks, to cut out a lot of the profit-skimming - a sort of digital credit union. But I don't think Bitcoin is it.

 

[grit]

I do actually think they might be scope for a sort of Betfair of banks, to cut out a lot of the profit-skimming - a sort of digital credit union. But I don't think Bitcoin is it.

What do you think its missing?

 

[Corax]

How can I quickly and easily send you 20 pounds without someone taking a cut from it, right now online? Added bonus points it can be anonymous and due to the decentralised nature the banks cant bully you. For example paypal stopping wikileaks donations.

Its essentially digital "cash" if you want an analogy.

I can see the issues. My point is that 90% of the people watching their promotional videos probably can't.

 

[Santino]

What do you think its missing?

Everything beyond the simple mechanism to transfer money from one person to another.

Who do you think would benefit most from the ability to transfer money anonymously across the world? Is it unemployed people? Is it cash-in-hand day workers? Is it white collar workers tied to a 9-5 job and a mortgage?

 

[DotCommunist]

the reason its beloved of randists and others of that ilk is because it shares the same fallacy that lack of fetters on a market/currency system would allow greater freedom. Based in the idea that capitalism would be a-ok if it wasn't for those pesky governments/elites/lizards. History shows otherwise.

 

[grit]

Everything beyond the simple mechanism to transfer money from one person to another.

Who do you think would benefit most from the ability to transfer money anonymously across the world? Is it unemployed people? Is it cash-in-hand day workers? Is it white collar workers tied to a 9-5 job and a mortgage?

Iit provides the ability to people who wouldn't usually have access, people without a credit card or even a bank account. A similar idea has revolutionised banking in some developing countries such as M-PESA is Kenya.

 

[Santino]

Provides the ability to do what? It's just digital cash, you said so yourself. It will be extremely useful for money-launderers and tax dodgers. How will it help someone on benefits?

 

[grit]

Provides the ability to do what? It's just digital cash, you said so yourself. It will be extremely useful for money-launderers and tax dodgers. How will it help someone on benefits?

Transfer money, its a pretty popular thing to do these days.

Why does it have to have a specific benefit to welfare recipients? You have *some* money on the dole right? might want to send it somewhere without being charged for the privilege?

Think of all those immigrant workers sending money home being raped by WU/International wire fees and the like. I'm sure you can think of some other valid situations.

 

[Santino]

Transfer money, its a pretty popular thing to do these days.

Why does it have to have a specific benefit to welfare recipients? You have *some* money on the dole right? might want to send it somewhere without being charged for the privilege?

So who do you think will be the greatest beneficiaries and what will be the consequences of that?

 

[grit]

You quoted before my addition of

"Think of all those immigrant workers sending money home being raped by WU/International wire fees and the like."

Who will be the greatest beneficiaries? The people receiving the money

 

[joustmaster]

It's a great invention. Been using it for a couple of months. Mining and buying stuff.

 

[grit]

It's a great invention. Been using it for a couple of months. Mining and buying stuff.

What vendors are you using that are accepting it as payment?

 

[camouflage]

the reason its beloved of randists and others of that ilk is because it shares the same fallacy that lack of fetters on a market/currency system would allow greater freedom. Based in the idea that capitalism would be a-ok if it wasn't for those pesky governments/elites/lizards. History shows otherwise.

I disagree, I think the Randists think it shares the same lack of fetters etc etc. It's a matter of monetary policy, with bitcoin the money supply is fixed so instead of interest rates you have deflation. If the economy grows, prices in bitcoin fall, if the economy shrinks, prices in bitcoin rise. No reason government cannot set regulations for businesses or levy taxes on revenues etc. Tax dodging has always been an option for those that are into that sort of thing.

Randists and the like are absolute twazzers to be fair, an example of their deeply flawed disconnected relationship with logic is their obsession with the Gold Standard being good and how 'fiat money' is bad.

I don't believe in trying to convince people of why bitcoin is a good idea, been there done that. Considering bitcoin peaked at 1 to 2.50 against the pound yesterday who cares what late-comers think. Far more interesting to consider matters of bitcoin economics and social/political questions. The Rand brigade think bitcoin's their baby, I strongly disagree.