Bitcoin discussion and news

[NoXion]

They trust the candidate they are voting for.

Not necessarily, they don't. The trust I am talking about is trust in the electoral process in itself, not trust in any candidate.

What is there not to love, it helps smaller parties and candidates who don't have loads of resources to run around collection counts with beady eyes.

No it doesn't. Smaller parties don't have the resources to check the code or whatever. But if they can spare a human with functional senses, then they can send an election observer.

 

[StakerOne]

Not necessarily, they don't. The trust I am talking about is trust in the electoral process in itself, not trust in any candidate.




No it doesn't. Smaller parties don't have the resources to check the code or whatever. But if they can spare a human with functional senses, then they can send an election observer.

The code is there for the entire planet to inspect.
Do you have any idea how many election monitoring groups there are out there? It's the sole reason why they exist!

 

[Storm Fox]

Oh it is. Very, very secret. So secret there is no record anywhere of who voted for who.
There doesn't need to be.

I thought it was recorded on an indelible blockchain.

If the quoted text above is the case if there is a problem with the controlling SmartContract how is that proved? Also there is a SmartContract involved. Software, which can have bugs, accidental or deliberate.

ETA and open source software has bugs too. ShellShock for example.

 

[NoXion]

Oh it is. Very, very secret. So secret there is no record anywhere of who voted for who.
There doesn't need to be.

The electronic world is infinitely malleable, anyone in the modern age knows this by the time they reach voting age. Electronic records can be faked or deleted. It's much harder to do the same when you have to physically produce or destroy the paper ballots necessary to influence an election. Electronic stuff is done in the background, where hardly any humans can see it. Paper ballots exist in the real world, which everyone intuitively understands.

Yammering about blockchain isn't going to instil confidence, because nobody can see that shit for themselves.

 

[NoXion]

The code is there for the entire planet to inspect.
Do you have any idea how many election monitoring groups there are out there? It's the sole reason why they exist!

I don't know shit about code. How can I trust it?

As for there being many election monitoring groups, that's how it's supposed to work. The more such witnesses there are, the harder electoral fraud becomes.

 

[StakerOne]

I thought it was recorded on an indelible blockchain.

If the quoted text above is the case if there is a problem with the controlling SmartContract how is that proved? Also there is a SmartContract involved. Software, which can have bugs, accidental or deliberate.

It doesn't need to make a note of who voted for who. It simply adds a vote to internal counters it has for each candidate. If you vote for candidate X then candidate X then the vote count for candidate X goes up by one. There's no need for any recounts, thousands of computers run the same code and agree the result is the same.

 

[StakerOne]

I don't know shit about code. How can I trust it?

As for there being many election monitoring groups, that's how it's supposed to work. The more such witnesses there are, the harder electoral fraud becomes.

You can't even see the code for your online banking app, yet you trust it.

 

[StakerOne]

It's not freedom through. It's an unregulated mess of competing standards and bad actors where only the rich, powerful and unscrupulous will prosper.
For citation see the pages and pages of web3isgoinggreat.

Please. There have been plenty of airdrops where poor people have received free money - a lot of
free money.

There have been more true acts of Robin Hood in crypto than any other sector, where projects that had large treasuries, gave free tokens to those who used their product.

Just one airdrop last year was more than the helicopter money given to US citizens.

As for competing standards, you do have a point, I mean video recorders were an absolute disaster weren't they?! /s

 

[stdP]

Blockchains:

• Allows ANYONE even a 6 year old, to make money from next to nothing so long as they have a mobile phone and laptop. I find it quite a revelation that school children can be financially free before they even leave school, by learning how to trade and invest. No one has disuputed that, because it's a fact.

I could go on.....

This one I had to ask for more on because as I read it, it's so batshittedly misguided as to defy physics. How, exactly? How does the presence of a blockchain allow anyone (regardless of age) to make money from ("next to") nothing with only a phone and a laptop?

Now let's use your example and say we want to be "financially free" by the time they're, say, 21 to be generous. To my ear that means having paid for university and bought a house outright and with no outstanding debt - we're talking at least half a million here, more like the whole wedge. Normally, the only way to make a fortune of this magnitude is long, winding and perilous... but in the world of crypto, there's no actual economy behind it, so the only "growth" in terms of an increase of available capital comes from more people putting more money in. And the only way to win a million in a zero-sum game like that is by making someone else lose a million.

Correct me if I'm wrong and that there is in fact a way to grow your PantsCoins from 5p to £50 by doing precisely nothing... but otherwise you seem to be saying that just simply by trading (what, with what, and how?), everyone will become a millionaire merely by collecting underpants and waiting for underpants to go to the moon, or trading them for some other entity. But without a functional economy producing real goods behind it, (and from my PoV there's nothing behind 99% of cryptocurrencies other than good old fashioned greed and blind speculation and no intrinsic quality that makes it unlike any other form of commodity trading), you don't just invent some form of capital and have it increase in value magically (because if you did we're back to the Golgafrinchams again).

As far as I can tell you're suggesting that parents throw their kids' uni funds on to the crypto roulette table so that those with a first-mover advantage have additional capital coming in to their gambling fiefdom, and this is precisely why so many people regard it as a ponzi scheme (often with a healthy dose of pyramid, wash and gold brick scams - for starters - thrown in for good measure). And given the horrendous track record for scams in the crypto space and the utter ambivalence of true believers like yourself to the plight of anyone who has these sort of problems, I'll keep all mine in tulips and beanie babies ta very much.

 

[StakerOne]

Electronic records can be faked or deleted.

Once a record is written to the blockchain, that record cannot be faked or deleted, it's there forever.
HOWEVER, if it's part of the smart contract's code, additional info can be recorded to the blockchain (Like, "I've changed my mind, I'm going to vote for Y rather X)

 

[Storm Fox]

You can't even see the code for your online banking app, yet you trust it.

Because it is regulated. If the app has a bug and you lose money you have multiple levels of recourse.
With Crypto, there is no regulation, no come-back, if bug in the code, bye-bye money. You have said you can be insured, but if a large DeFi project goes down, would the insurance company cope with the loss? Even if they actually paid out it the first place.
There are plenty of examples in the past few months of organisations not allowing customers to withdraw their own Crypto.

 

[StakerOne]

This one I had to ask for more on because as I read it, it's so batshittedly misguided as to defy physics. How, exactly? How does the presence of a blockchain allow anyone (regardless of age) to make money from ("next to") nothing with only a phone and a laptop?

Now let's use your example and say we want to be "financially free" by the time they're, say, 21 to be generous. To my ear that means having paid for university and bought a house outright and with no outstanding debt - we're talking at least half a million here, more like the whole wedge. Normally, the only way to make a fortune of this magnitude is long, winding and perilous... but in the world of crypto, there's no actual economy behind it, so the only "growth" in terms of an increase of available capital comes from more people putting more money in. And the only way to win a million in a zero-sum game like that is by making someone else lose a million.

Correct me if I'm wrong and that there is in fact a way to grow your PantsCoins from 5p to £50 by doing precisely nothing... but otherwise you seem to be saying that just simply by trading (what, with what, and how?), everyone will become a millionaire merely by collecting underpants and waiting for underpants to go to the moon, or trading them for some other entity. But without a functional economy producing real goods behind it, (and from my PoV there's nothing behind 99% of cryptocurrencies other than good old fashioned greed and blind speculation and no intrinsic quality that makes it unlike any other form of commodity trading), you don't just invent some form of capital and have it increase in value magically (because if you did we're back to the Golgafrinchams again).

As far as I can tell you're suggesting that parents throw their kids' uni funds on to the crypto roulette table so that those with a first-mover advantage have additional capital coming in to their gambling fiefdom, and this is precisely why so many people regard it as a ponzi scheme (often with a healthy dose of pyramid, wash and gold brick scams - for starters - thrown in for good measure). And given the horrendous track record for scams in the crypto space and the utter ambivalence of true believers like yourself to the plight of anyone who has these sort of problems, I'll keep all mine in tulips and beanie babies ta very much.

Trade. Trade is about buying low and selling higher. That one thing, is legite and not only is it legite it's beneficial to the market, because it makes the market more efficient.

 

[NoXion]

Once a record is written to the blockchain, that record cannot be faked or deleted, it's there forever.

That's the claim. As someone who knows next to nothing about computer coding, how can I possibly verify this claim? I can understand putting marks on paper just fine though.

 

[stdP]

Trade. Trade is about buying low and selling higher. That one thing, is legite and not only is it legite it's beneficial to the market, because it makes the market more efficient.

So the more you trade, the more efficient the market becomes, and thus the commodities you trade in become worth more?

 

[StakerOne]

Because it is regulated. If the app has a bug and you lose money you have multiple levels of recourse.
With Crypto, there is no regulation, no come-back, if bug in the code, bye-bye money. You have said you can be insured, but if a large DeFi project goes down, would the insurance company cope with the loss? Even if they actually paid out it the first place.
There are plenty of examples in the past few months of organisations not allowing customers to withdraw their own Crypto.

We're talking about elections with a small number of simple smart contracts involved.

Remeber, the main players, the polticial parties can test the thing to death - it's way more reliable than manual counts.

I've told you over and over and over again, how people can protect their money in crypto but you ignore. Nevermind, younger people trust it and you can't stop them from using it.

 

[StakerOne]

That's the claim. As someone who knows next to nothing about computer coding, how can I possibly verify this claim? I can understand putting marks on paper just fine though.

Learn about coding. Solidity smart contract code is very very simple.

 

[StakerOne]

So the more you trade, the more efficient the market becomes, and thus the commodities you trade in become worth more?

No, the price would become equal across the entire market, up or down.

 

[Storm Fox]

We're talking about elections with a small number of simple smart contracts involved.

Remeber, the main players, the polticial parties can test the thing to death - it's way more reliable than manual counts.

I've told you over and over and over again, how people can protect their money in crypto but you ignore. Nevermind, younger people trust it and you can't stop them from using it.

I replied to this comment you made:

You can't even see the code for your online banking app, yet you trust it.

BIB: No you have typed the word insurance over and over again. You have yet to say how this insurance company is regulated, who decides whether to pay out and what recourse you have if the insurance company fails to pay out on what you believe is a valid claim.

 

[stdP]

No, the price would become equal across the entire market, up or down.

So, once again, I'm curious as to where all of these untold millions are coming from.

 

[StakerOne]

I replied to this comment you made:


BIB: No you have typed the word insurance over and over again. You have yet to say how this insurance company is regulated, who decides whether to pay out and what recourse you have if the insurance company fails to pay out on what you believe is a valid claim.

Because it's not an insurance company that is providing insurance to sectors that are regulated - it's providing smart contract insurance.

Ultimately, it's just a smart contract itself that provides insurance...ergo..smart contracts don't need to be refuglated, because they do what they are coded to do.

It's way different than car insurance for example.

If you prang your car, it's between just you and the insurance company.

If a smart contract blows up - it's newsworthy, so if there is no insurance payout - the insurance DAO is finished, so they payment.

Very, very, different.

Also, with smart contracts and oracles, it's possible to create social conensus negating the need for regulators in SOME situations.

 

[StakerOne]

So, once again, I'm curious as to where all of these untold millions are coming from.

Does the thought of the developing world participating in the service economy horrify you?
Do you think they should ask for permission off white Europeans to particpate?

Yes, a load is from money flowing in from traditional finance. So what?

 

[Storm Fox]

Because it's not an insurance company that is providing insurance to sectors that are regulated - it's providing smart contract insurance.

Ultimately, it's just a smart contract itself that provides insurance...ergo..smart contracts don't need to be refuglated, because they do what they are coded to do.

How does the insurance smart contract know another smart contract is buggy?

It's way different than car insurance for example.

If you prang your car, it's between just you and the insurance company.

If a smart contract blows up - it's newsworthy, so if there is no insurance payout - the insurance DAO is finished, so they payment.

What happens if they don't have enough Crypto to cover the losses?
Surely faced with losing all the money would be a motive for the Governance Members of the DAO to take the money and run.

Very, very, different.

Also, with smart contracts and oracles, it's possible to create social conensus negating the need for regulators in SOME situations.

 

[stdP]

Does the thought of the developing world participating in the service economy horrify you?
Do you think they should ask for permission off white Europeans to particpate?

Well, that ask of "where is all the money coming from" certainly went in an unexpected direction, but I guess as a not-a-six-year-old I can't possibly comprehend your logic.

 

[StakerOne]

So, once again, I'm curious as to where all of these untold millions are coming from.

You do realise don't you that people are bringing in mney in the form of stablecoins?

So normal money is coming in to be used for normal purposes.

Some people migh whip out their VISA card and not even realise that money is moving around on Ethereum to settle up.

 

[stdP]

You do realise don't you that people are bringing in mney in the form of stablecoins?

So normal money is coming in to be used for normal purposes.

Some people migh whip out their VISA card and not even realise that money is moving around on Ethereum to settle up.

And can you please explain by what mechanism your £1m in PantsCoin becomes £2m, or more? Because if you want everyone to be a millionaire by the time they're 21 that's what needs to happen. You don't just say "oh, someone added an extra million". I want to know by what mechanism growth within the cryptocurrency environment is meant to happen without a constant influx of external capital.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes they do. You can't trust what you don't understand.

Exactly this. Democracy isn't about getting something political parties are happy about, which they then communicate to their loyal supporters. Oftentimes, the struggle is to get stuff the political parties are not happy about. Political parties are not in any way the guardians of democracy. This mad idea would make them the gatekeepers of democracy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Trade. Trade is about buying low and selling higher. That one thing, is legite and not only is it legite it's beneficial to the market, because it makes the market more efficient.

You wander from making out that somehow you want to critique and overthrow capitalist structures to making the most extreme defences of their excesses. This shit, along with your defence of arbitrage earlier, is nothing more than post facto justification used by people making a ton of money out of trading on electronic markets. It's bullshit.

Once upon a time, merchants added value by transporting goods from one place to another. But traders on a computer perform no such service. They're in the wealth-extraction business, nothing more.

You're an extremist 'anarcho-capitalist'. As such, your positions are necessarily incoherent and necessarily ignore the social conditions that are produced by political-economic systems. It's telling those bits of a particular form of economics theory that you swallow whole without chewing. One of the many things you don't get is that the particular forms of trade and arbitrage that you celebrate can only exist within a certain political-economic structure.

Politically, you place yourself on the other side from me. You are with the rich and for the rich. You are a rightist, a cheerleader for the powerful. You dream of being rich. You don't give a fuck about justice.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Does the thought of the developing world participating in the service economy horrify you?
Do you think they should ask for permission off white Europeans to particpate?

Crypto's for the poor and disenfranchised. It's anti-colonialist. It's anti-imperialist.

If you're gonna lie, lie BIG.

 

[Supine]

This astroturf gig isn’t an easy one!

 

[kabbes]

www.staker1isgoinggreat.com