A lead is not onerous. Wearing a muzzle can be very distressing for a dog, though. At the very least, it stops the dog from interacting peacefully and enjoyably with its environment, which sucks the joy from its walk. It’s like only feeding a person gruel — it might not hurt them physically but never being able to eat anything nice ever would be very unpleasant.
XL Bully dog - discussion
- Thread starter platinumsage
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I do think any measures need to be proportionate and evidence-based. Would be good to dig down into why the Spanish legislation hasn't reduced serious dog attacks.
While I can see why it would be better generally if XL Bullies and the like didn't exist, there is the danger of a 'something must be done; this is something so it must be done' reaction.
While I can see why it would be better generally if XL Bullies and the like didn't exist, there is the danger of a 'something must be done; this is something so it must be done' reaction.
My local council is debating whether all dogs should be kept on a lead in public spaces. I would be desperately unhappy if this was the case - most dogs already only get a couple of not very long walks so being denied the opportunity to socialise,chase balls, sniff in bushes and so on, would, I think be tragically over-reacting, as well as discriminating against urban or poorer people who cannot drive out to some far off field and rely on nearby green spaces...although, tbf, I also notice more owners voluntarily keep their dogs on a lead because of poor recall or risk of chasing bikes and so on. It is hard to legislate better training and awareness of shared spaces but nonetheless, back when I first had dogs as ayoung adult, many,many more dogs simply roamed the streets;. Public opinion and gradual behavioural changes do change attitudes towards dog ownership and our collective responsibilities. While not advocating wedo nothing, I am not in favour of legal kneejerk responses.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
That monstrous thing could easily eat that little girl if it wanted.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
It might be time to think whether dogs in densely populated areas are a good idea at all (yeah, controversial, but...), especially when they spend so much of their time confined. That's the reason I never had a dog in London (plus the daily "picking up shit" aspect, no thanks). I love dogs but while cats are free to roam, dogs are basically under control 24/7 in cities. When I was growing up dogs had a lot more freedom. Rightly so this has changed, given our lifestyles, but hasn't it come to a point where it's not fair on dogs to give them such a confined/restricted life they weren't built for?
I guess that's why very small breeds are doing so well, probably better suited for urban life? They don't need as much space to run around?
I guess that's why very small breeds are doing so well, probably better suited for urban life? They don't need as much space to run around?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
You haven't met the little girl....
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
First they came for the traffic cones and I did nothing...
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Is this ban kneejerk though? It's been campaigned for for a while, and it seems to me as if the government have gone for it because it's highly targeted compared to other broader measures such as licensing and muzzling, which would have seen disapproval from a not insignificant proportion of Tory voters.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Or any other little child that crossed its path at the wrong time. But at least it doesn't look like a densely populated area. The common near me is struggling, with the acidity from all the dogs peeing on the grass, with dogs biting each other, with dogs going for other people, etc.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbh if the action taken is to act against XL Bullies in the same way the Major govt acted against pit bulls, then I have no objection.
However, we should be aware that it might not make all that much difference. The idiot owners out there will just get something else and poorly socialise it.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
maomao
普費斯
20kg is about the size of a human four or five year old so equal to the smallest humans that are likely to be walking around without an adult holding on to them at all times.
So?
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
I kind of agree with this. You can cross bread and they'll fill it with something that doesn't break the law. Similar to the noval psychoactive substances that slightly changed their structure so they could be sold legally.
Sunak loves a quick policy at the moment. It's amazing how quickly he can come out and say stuff like this even when you agree you with it, but then other issues get routinely ignored.
No mention of looking into the trade at all and actually ensuring that dog breeders are properly regulated. Unless I missed it?
Not against the ban, but it's an easy win and way to be seen to do something without actually dealing with any of the underlying issues.
I wonder if this was instrumental in hurrying things along Man killed in Stonnall 'American bully XL' attack named
(that's the man who was attacked yesterday - he died from his injuries)
(that's the man who was attacked yesterday - he died from his injuries)
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Ban them too if necessary, but I don't think it is very likely anytime soon. New breeds that can circumvent existing regulations on banned types and which can kill as easily as the XL aren't magicked up overnight. As to them switching to existing breeds, that's possible but they won't be as inherently dangerous as XLs which seem to be at the top of the tree in terms of physicality and bred behaviour.
This is a targeted measure that will certainly m reduce the number of deaths in the short term. If further measures are necessary down the line so be it.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Glad to see the ban, though I'm sure people are right that there are some better measures that could also be taken, including licensing breeders and so on. I'd also like to see some action taken on the huge number of people who don't train their dogs properly and then think it's fine when they jump up at people who are scared of them and can't call them off even if they try. But I realise there is a big pro-dog lobby that will probably prevent that.
It's funny to think that we can't seem to rewild with wolves in this country because people are shit-scared of wolves killing people, when in fact dogs kill far more people than wolves.
It's funny to think that we can't seem to rewild with wolves in this country because people are shit-scared of wolves killing people, when in fact dogs kill far more people than wolves.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
In my neck of the woods the council is quite active where antisocial dogs are concerned.
There was a man with a deaf dog (perhaps a bull dog type) that attacked other dogs when off the lead. A complaint (more than one) was made and said person had to keep the dog on a lead and it had to wear a muzzle. I think it was an owner problem rather than the dog.
Then there was a friend of mine who had lots of Labs the eldest of which was a bit of a handful, never bit anyone or anything but used to run up to other dogs / people and not be very good at stopping in time. It didn't bother me, nor Larry, but another dog walker complained about him and his owner, my friend, was told if the behaviour continued he might be destroyed. They stopped coming to those fields and were quite upset about it as they had literally been coming to these fields for many years.
Not seen any XL Bully types there.
There was a man with a deaf dog (perhaps a bull dog type) that attacked other dogs when off the lead. A complaint (more than one) was made and said person had to keep the dog on a lead and it had to wear a muzzle. I think it was an owner problem rather than the dog.
Then there was a friend of mine who had lots of Labs the eldest of which was a bit of a handful, never bit anyone or anything but used to run up to other dogs / people and not be very good at stopping in time. It didn't bother me, nor Larry, but another dog walker complained about him and his owner, my friend, was told if the behaviour continued he might be destroyed. They stopped coming to those fields and were quite upset about it as they had literally been coming to these fields for many years.
Not seen any XL Bully types there.
JimW
支那暗杀团
I'd envisage designated spaces where they can be off lead, then that's down to people entering them taking the risk. It's basically what I do with my two, on lead until we're in the hills behind, then off for a run about but put on if I spot a shepherd and flock, not that they've ever worried sheep but don't risk it.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I think they do that in US with dedicated dog parks (that you have to pay to use).
JimW
支那暗杀团
Pay to use isn't good.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
Oh give me strength, I do honestly think some breeds are problematic, I mean why the hell was this breed created in the first place? Pitbulls not hard enough for some folks then? Yeah lets just inbreed and inbreed til we get a huge one.
I used to know this fella who had two dogs that were part wolf, in London. Do a Google there are one or two dog breeds with wolf bred into them. They were absolutely huge and totally unpredictable with a high prey drive. He often looked to me as if he couldn't control them. Lots of locals reported problematic behaviour from them, they loved to chase other peoples pets. Why would you want or need a dog like that in Central London.
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platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
On a similar note, in America advocating pit bull bans is apparently racist:
"Breed-specific legislation acts as a barrier to entry, preventing pit bull owners from settling in cities and neighborhoods. It also forces current residents to make an unhappy choice between giving up their pet and giving up their home. These breed bans function like any occupancy restriction or exclusionary zoning ordinance. They limit the pool of potential residents and exclude individuals from neighborhoods where they have made their home."
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep, the problem here is minimal regulation of breeders, lack of a register of owners, lack of micro-chipping and, ultimately, decades of governments that don't give a shit about animal welfare. Which ultimately can lead to the horrors of dog attacks on humans.
I'm not suggesting that having proper regulation will catch all the scumbags breeding aggressive dogs on remote farms and away from prying eyes. But having systems in place that look to animal welfare will ultimately reduce animal attacks on humans.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
That is it in a nutshell really. There is no such thing as an inherently bad dog, there are unsocialised and untrained dogs.
My daughter's dog is a border collie/lab cross, and a more affectionate beast you would never meet. He doesn't just wag his tail, he wags his whole rear end
. He is big, probably about 40 kilos, and it is all muscle, but he has been trained properly. She takes him to the park at 06:30 every day, where he meets his friends, and they chase each other to exhaustion. The other morning he was playing chase with a fox, he chased the fox, the fox chased him.
seeformiles
Lost in the wood
The sight of all sorts of dogs playing together in the park brings me a great deal of joy first thing in the morningThat is it in a nutshell really. There is no such thing as an inherently bad dog, there are unsocialised and untrained dogs.
My daughter's dog is a border collie/lab cross, and a more affectionate beast you would never meet. He doesn't just wag his tail, he wags his whole rear end
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