Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Cloo]

Honestly, I think the quickest (and most humiliating for Putin) way to end this is work out how many Russian army are there and offer at least the equivalent of 50% of them amnesty and EU citizenship if they turn up at a European embassy. And a hot meal, given the poor provisioning.

Mind you, would be rubbing it in a bit for Ukraine, considering a big reason for not admitting them to EU, from what I heard, was the fact that Europe didn't want to deal with the inevitable fact of a Russian invasion on what would then be EU soil.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Or they're happy to let the media film a bunch of tanks going in one direction, while another, bigger, bunch of tanks goes in another direction, unfilmed. Military deception is something of an art form in Russia.

The biggest deception of all being "yeah we're going to kick Ukraine in the fucking teeth and it'll collapse in 24 hours"

 

[Supine]

The biggest deception of all being "yeah we're going to kick Ukraine in the fucking teeth and it'll collapse in 24 hours"

That’s the problem with teeth. They can bite.

 

[Bingoman]

Sky News reporting that Germany to supply Ukraine anti tank weapons and missiles

 

[friedaweed]

It'd be really great if people could keep their egos and personal gripes at each other off this fucking thread please thanks.

If that happens I'm leaving again.

 

[Cid]

Or they're happy to let the media film a bunch of tanks going in one direction, while another, bigger, bunch of tanks goes in another direction, unfilmed. Military deception is something of an art form in Russia.

There are presumably a limited number of routes capable of taking tank columns and their support, and they're currently going to be under whatever scrutiny various intelligence types can muster.

 

[existentialist]

There are presumably a limited number of routes capable of taking tank columns and their support, and they're currently going to be under whatever scrutiny various intelligence types can muster.

All the more reason to make a bit of a show of some nice camera-friendly big tank driving-around action

 

[Cid]

All the more reason to make a bit of a show of some nice camera-friendly big tank driving-around action

Well sure, but this seems to be more a case of 'look at how big and long my column is' than a cunning bluff.

 

[elbows]

If the dozy fucks hadn't scrapped their nuclear plants...

Oh how dare they listen to public opinion and take into account party political reality in relation to the likes of the green party and coalition governments. They've given themselves some additional energy challenges but the impact of Chernobyl and Fukushima on public option were felt very heavily there, so I would have done the same and got out of the nuclear game too. Especially as they dont have the 'complications' and blurring of lines that often stem from nuclear weapons and related industries/funding and propaganda.

If there are meaningful energy shortages and price problems in the years ahead then it will be interesting to see if public opinion shifts there, but in the meantime there is plenty of renewable stuff they could push much harder on, although I doubt it will fill the gap in the same way their medium-term gas plans envisaged. But at least nuclear wont be competing for a share of infrastructure investment funding.

 

[friedaweed]

What's in made up of? I can't enlarge it.

 

[Cid]

What's in made up of? I can't enlarge it.

Cocks.

 

[existentialist]

Well sure, but this seems to be more a case of 'look at how big and long my column is' than a cunning bluff.

It can be both!

 

[Cid]

It can be both!

Well like I say, it could be... But the ability to deceive in that way is going to be a lot more limited now than it has been in the past.

 

[Cid]

What's in made up of? I can't enlarge it.

Try rubbing it.

 

[Aladdin]

gobsmacking. have they never heard 'loose lips sink ships' or whatever the soviet/russian equivalent is?

I think it's "a minute on the lips...a lifetime in the shits" ?

 

[bimble]

It can be both!

Why would they bother pretending for 2 days to be crap at fighting ? It was billed in the guardian yesterday morning as a ‘lightning attack’ , been a bit like my cheap crappy NYE fireworks so far.
I think very likely the expectation was that there’d be no resistance, as in 1968 and as RT was pretending was the case before they went off air.

 

[Aladdin]

For an extremely violent homophobe they are the campest combat boots I’ve ever seen.

They double as spare tyres

 

[cupid_stunt]

They have also finally agreed that German weapons supplied to the likes of Holland can now be sent to Ukraine, this is a major shift in policy.

Sky News reporting that Germany to supply Ukraine anti tank weapons and missiles

Yep, they have now gone further, and agreed to supply1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 stinger missiles directly to Ukraine.

 

[zahir]

Honestly, I think the quickest (and most humiliating for Putin) way to end this is work out how many Russian army are there and offer at least the equivalent of 50% of them amnesty and EU citizenship if they turn up at a European embassy. And a hot meal, given the poor provisioning.

Latvia's minister of defence has suggested something along these lines.

 

[Aladdin]

One of the biggest misconceptions widely shared by populists of both the far left and far right in this country is the assumption that Putin is a cunning strategist who runs rings around ‘the West ‘ and so on. The fact is he is a dick who just happens to be a sociopath with a chip on his shoulder the size of Chernobyl’s reactor. Forever obsessed about Russia’s place in the world he has done nothing for the Russian people and squandered billions of dollars of greenhouse-gas emitting fossil fuels on pointless Foreign misadventures while not only doing nothing to enhance the wider economy but making it worse by continually inflicting western sanctions on the economy because of the aforementioned aggressive foreign policy. The potential of the Russian people is enormous but it will never be unleashed while that little man holds the reins of power in cahoots with the gangsters who vie for power beneath his tiny little frame.

Yes...
But he does have a big red button linked to the most nuclear warheads in the world.

So there is that

 

[Raheem]

Yep, they have now gone further, and agreed to supply1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 stinger missiles directly to Ukraine.

Given the speed of the Russian advance, Hermes will probably do.

 

[Dystopiary]

The barrister guy mentioned up thread has retweeted this. I don't know anything about them, but he seems legit.

 

[Aladdin]

Honestly, I think the quickest (and most humiliating for Putin) way to end this is work out how many Russian army are there and offer at least the equivalent of 50% of them amnesty and EU citizenship if they turn up at a European embassy. And a hot meal, given the poor provisioning.

Mind you, would be rubbing it in a bit for Ukraine, considering a big reason for not admitting them to EU, from what I heard, was the fact that Europe didn't want to deal with the inevitable fact of a Russian invasion on what would then be EU soil.

That crossed my mind too.
Offer them a new life in the west and a bew identity.

 

[platinumsage]

That crossed my mind too.
Offer them a new life in the west and a bew identity.

They have families they'd like to see again. A non-starter IMO.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Anyone else working their way through the original Ukraine thread started in 2012 (which unsurprisingly picked up momentum in 2014)? Lots of interesting stuff to remind oneself of in terms of how 2022 came about.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyone else working their way through the original Ukraine thread started in 2012 (which unsurprisingly picked up momentum in 2014)? Lots of interesting stuff to remind oneself of in terms of how 2022 came about.

Good call

 

[Aladdin]

Why would they bother pretending for 2 days to be crap at fighting ? It was billed in the guardian yesterday morning as a ‘lightning attack’ , been a bit like my cheap crappy NYE fireworks so far.
I think very likely the expectation was that there’d be no resistance, as in 1968 and as RT was pretending was the case before they went off air.

Because the kids they sent in were barely trained.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Their systems have failed a number of times before in a similar manner, if not quite so catastrophically. So am minded to believe their IT is shite rather than anything more sinister.

A380 - I am reviewing my opinion here. Have people stuck all over Europe and gates allocated, aircraft there but can't fly. One aspect is that the system that tells the pilots how much fuel to load, where to place cargo, take off speeds etc. is also not working, never heard of that before. Got cyber attack all over it.

 

[CyberRose]

Abramovich has given up control of Chelsea to its charity foundation

Statement from Club Owner Roman Abramovich

The following statement has been published...

www.chelseafc.com

Is this a way of skirting round the sanctions?

 

[Idris2002]

There a rather tasteless meme of St Javelin doing the rounds.
Referring to the fact Ukraine has a shed load of Javelin anti tank missiles that are just about man portable fire and forget and will reliably kill modern tanks from out of range of a tanks main gun.
Stingers Surface to air missiles.
We gave them loads of Nlaw a short range guided anti tank missile that xan be used in urban warfare.
Really not a good place to be a, tanker hicoptwr pilot or ground attack pilot

On the Tanks for the Memories thread there was some debate about whether the tank was going to be rendered obsolete by such devices. I think this war is going to settle that one.