Either he is speechless, can't get a word in edgeways or isn't on the other end of the line. Anyway, it's all going to be figured out step by step by Richie and Justin.
He's got form.Why's Trudeau putting on a Slavic accent to say "Hello Volodomir"?
russian backed separatists did the same to mh17
It'd be a courtesy to say what's in that video so people know before clicking the linkI support anyone following this message.
I stopped myself with that one.It'd be a courtesy to say what's in that video so people know before clicking the link
The word of Sin is RestrictionI stopped myself with that one.![]()
There was that "agreement", but there was also an agreement that if Ukraine gave up their pretty big stockpile of nuclear weapons to Russia, their security would be guaranteed, by the USA, Russia and the UK.I don't see the problem with revisiting old ground in a thread.
This thread is neigh 640 pages long now and folk will dip in and out and it is a discussion that some may come to later in the development of the war.
I've followed the thread from day one but having only recently read some of the the historical stuff on NATO, and the fall of the former soviet union I have actually found it really interesting. I also value the knowledge and insight that a number of posters on this thread have so much so that would like to engage with their thoughts about what their views are about some of what I've read, but to be honest the willy waving that goes on here just puts you off.
I don't have a massively informed opinion on some of these things but I know that in order to bolster my opinion it would help me from engaging in discussion with people who's views I'd benefit from engaging with IYSWIM.
If people can't ask questions that revisit previously discussed areas on a 600 page thread without being shouted down then it's not a discussion its just a "We did this 6 months ago" closed shop.
Where's the scope for advance dialogue and creating a shared consensus in that? Where's the actual 'Ongoing' discussion?
It seems it's OK to have a few pages of calling each other dickwads and wankstains but it's verboten to revisit themes and concepts that have previously been discussed by the main contributors of the discussion.
Wasn't this why a lot of board members historically said they stopped contributing to P&P and something we've said we'd sort out numerous times over the years?
Just asking like
Anyway, I found this an interesting read.
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documentsnsarchive.gwu.edu
If anyone can recommend anything else without sending me that old Google meme I'd appreciate it.
Thanks mate. I have been reading about that as well in some Chomsky stuff on Clinton but not that wiki page specifically.There was that "agreement", but there was also an agreement that if Ukraine gave up their pretty big stockpile of nuclear weapons to Russia, their security would be guaranteed, by the USA, Russia and the UK.
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Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
But that agreement was as solid as agreements in P&P not to call each other names.
wankerThanks mate. I have been reading about that as well in some Chomsky stuff on Clinton but not that wiki page specifically.
Appreciated, yer cunt!
What's wrong with just saying why you don't think it is NATO's fault and explaining why? Shirley that's more of a discussion. I know there's personality issues and beef drippin attached but it would be so much more interesting to read to a layperson if people just engaged with the posters position.when was the agreement to not call each other names in P&P and it Sub Forums ya Cockwomble
plus not a lot of name calling last night just people get frustrated at someone "going its all nato fault prove me otherwise"
and saying maybe search this massive thread a little
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If it was a new poster or someone that didn't usually post in P&P I'd be right behind that. But he's not been away that long and is a long-term regular. When I returned after ages I didn't jump in expecting loads of explanations and disrupting shit.What's wrong with just saying why you don't think it is NATO's fault and explaining why? Shirley that's more of a discussion. I know there's personality issues and beef drippin attached but it would be so much more interesting to read to a layperson if people just engaged with the posters position.
What's wrong with just saying why you don't think it is NATO's fault and explaining why? Shirley that's more of a discussion. I know there's personality issues and beef drippin attached but it would be so much more interesting to read to a layperson if people just engaged with the posters position.
I think that, when someone comes onto the thread making wild claims, people point out that they're wild claims, and that someone then DEMANDS that they explain, it's not surprising that such people might think "You know what? Fuck you."What's wrong with just saying why you don't think it is NATO's fault and explaining why? Shirley that's more of a discussion. I know there's personality issues and beef drippin attached but it would be so much more interesting to read to a layperson if people just engaged with the posters position.
Setting a very high bar there palWhat's wrong with just saying why you don't think it is NATO's fault and explaining why? Shirley that's more of a discussion. I know there's personality issues and beef drippin attached but it would be so much more interesting to read to a layperson if people just engaged with the posters position.
Fair do's and I respect your view on that and I'm not specifically sticking up for anyone here, I honestly never have any idea who the current antagonist is, it's never on my radar. It's just in my head that it's easier to engage with the subject rather than the poster I suppose for the benefit of other people reading the thread. A bit 'play the ball not the man' to coin a terrible footy related blokey analogy.If it was a new poster or someone that didn't usually post in P&P I'd be right behind that. But he's not been away that long and is a long-term regular. When I returned after ages I didn't jump in expecting loads of explanations and disrupting shit.
what personal insults did i give that the reason i'm confused
lot of good post happened last night and it was more than just a pile on with the other side
going "no its natos fault, and no i will not catch up on anything "
with the poster in question never answering why he thought the Ukrainians did not deserve the same conditions as every other nation aside from Russia
That's where you went wrongIf it was a new poster or someone that didn't usually post in P&P I'd be right behind that. But he's not been away that long and is a long-term regular. When I returned after ages I didn't jump in expecting loads of explanations and disrupting shit.
It was wrong for any annoying strategy, accepted.That's where you went wrong![]()
Thanks for that. That's kind of my point but I'm not always succinct at putting it across but it certainly is worth talking about.The trouble with the 'it's all NATO's fault' viewpoint, which certainly might be worth talking about, is that some holding that view are pro Putin. Others may be pro Putin but pretend otherwise. I'm not saying that applies to many people on here, but places like Stop the War have some like that. If people take that view it would also be a good idea to take note of the counter arguments. A section of the American Marxist left is particularly bad at this, people like Pilger too. They betray their bias, and ignorance of Russian and Ukrainian history, in their eagerness to put all the blame onto the great satan, the USA.
Yeah but not everyone who reads the thread wants the taste of vinegar when they leave it. Give them some honey.having a lay person asking questions is fine enough
but as always you get more flies with honey than vinegar
as with almost all p&p threads if you don't come across as blatantly abrasive then you get more out of the discussion
and screw you i don't want to read anything is not a good idea![]()
Disrupting shit.If it was a new poster or someone that didn't usually post in P&P I'd be right behind that. But he's not been away that long and is a long-term regular. When I returned after ages I didn't jump in expecting loads of explanations and disrupting shit.
Don't come the fucking innocent.Disrupting shit.
Obvs quite unlike this navel gazing you’re participating in.
Yeah maybe my serotonin levels are quite high today and I'm expecting more from life. I have been burning the odd joss stick as well latelySetting a very high bar there pal