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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

RD2003 said:
Cunts are not allowed an independent foreign policy, it seems. Curb your independence in the name of Ukrainian independence.
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Oh hi.

RD2003 said:
Necessary for the Soviet state.
Self-determination is a nice thing, but in this case ..
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wally.

There was no news in that article about India anyway, the sanctions have been hovering around as a threat for years, stupid as it would be, nothing is actually happening.
 
Ax^ said:
tbf when Lukashenko fixed the election in Minsk where you not arguing fair play to Russia

thats what i mean when i bring it up fella :hmm:

being a bit of tankie is not that bad a thing , having a history of wishing well on another dictator during this shite is not a a good look
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Don't think so, but I might have. I often say stuff on the spur of the moment. It's entertaining, especially some of the responses from those who think they're actually politicians.

And even if I did, why is a different viewpoint a problem for you?

But a gaggle of you are derailing again by trying to make it about me. Try not to.
 
Ax^ said:
ok so you just defending Putin and Modi atm

fucking melt
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Haven't 'defended' either.

And as I said, even if somebody might do, why are you apparently unable to tolerate an opinion that opposes yours?

I thought you were fighting totalitarianism or autocracy, or some fucking thing here?
 
An aside a moment.

I would have thought military vehicles by now would all have run flat tyres as otherwise the tyres are a weak spot, but it seems from the numerous pictures of stranded military vehicles with flat tyres that at least on the Russian side they don't have them.
 
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Smangus said:
So will the Western powers consider the Russian Army a bit of a joke now? The whole op starting to look very ragged. Apart from the obvious massive firepower potentially at hand.

But -

They can't suppress the anti aircraft defence.

Large parts of the Army are obviously under trained and under equipped.

Seems vehicles haven't been/ are not maintained properly

Logistics is obviously a nightmare.

All leading to very poor morale amongst uninformed troops. Although this will vary.


Seems to me also that the hand held missiles vs tanks, aircraft and other vehicles is potentially game changing. A bit like battleships vs aircraft in ww2.
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i posted this about the handheld stuff on another thread
Those NLAW and javelin anti-tank missiles are a crucial factor - hand held, accurate, relatively simple to use and can take out any tank with one hit. I was a but surprised by how many tanks the Ukrainian army claimed the took out in the first few days so did some research - and yeah, they are really effective and a real advantage to a defender. The NLAW costs £20,000. A Russian battle tank - fuck knows - a million or ten? The Ukrainian army are getting thousands of these missiles.

They are easy to use and you can have guys with these all spread over a large area. Maybe they get a mobile message that an armoured column is coming to this junction a few miles away (Ukraine will be getting all of NATOs surveillance info) - they hoof it over there - fire off a few of anti tank missiles and fuck off sharpish. Not sure how Russia can win against that sort of mobile defence in depth. They will be a bit like the napoleon's army in spain where they "only owned the land they were actually standing on". Also read somewhere that Ukrainian forces were letting the tanks go through - then taking out the supply columns following a few miles behind. Then the tanks run out of fuel and are sitting ducks.
But yeah - made me think that the tank is kind of obsolete (see also - impact of drones) .
 
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weltweit said:
An aside a moment.

I would have thought military vehicles by now would all have run flat tyres as otherwise the tyres are a weak spot, but it seems from the numerous pictures of stranded military vehicles with flat tyres that at least on the Russian side they don't have them.
Click to expand...

There was a post up earlier about the importance of tyres and looking after them else they weaken after too long sitting idle in the sun. This causes problems in very muddy terrain apparently, maybe this is what we are seeing?.
 
Smangus said:
So will the Western powers consider the Russian Army a bit of a joke now? The whole op starting to look very ragged. Apart from the obvious massive firepower potentially at hand.

But -

They can't suppress the anti aircraft defence.

Large parts of the Army are obviously under trained and under equipped.

Seems vehicles haven't been/ are not maintained properly

Logistics is obviously a nightmare.

All leading to very poor morale amongst uninformed troops. Although this will vary.


Seems to me also that the hand held missiles vs tanks, aircraft and other vehicles is potentially game changing. A bit like battleships vs aircraft in ww2.
Click to expand...

Read that there was one guy who was attempting to reform the whole lot (Serdyukov) but got on the wrong side of all those making a heap of money from the military corruption so he was out. Gerasimov was the politically pliant replacement who's also from Kazan, so not viewed as a risk for accumulating power to himself. Hence the end of a lot of reforms and, presumably, the shocking state of the military now. Money's been spent, it's just not gone anywhere useful.
 
Kaka Tim said:
i posted this about the handheld stuff on another thread
Those NLAW and javelin anti-tank missiles are a crucial factor - hand held, accurate, relatively simple to use and can take out any tank with one hit. I was a but surprised by how many tanks the Ukrainian army claimed the took out in the first few days so did some research - and yeah, they are really effective and a real advantage to a defender. The NLAW costs £20,000. A Russian battle tank - fuck knows - a million or ten? The Ukrainian army are getting thousands of these missiles.

They are easy to use and you can have guys with these all spread over a large area. Maybe they get a mobile message that an armoured column is coming to this junction a few miles away (Ukraine will be getting all of NATOs surveillance info) - they hoof it over there - fire off a few of anti tank missiles and fuck off sharpish. Not sure how Russia can win against that sort of mobile defence in depth. They will be a bit like the napoleon's army in spain where they "only owned the land they were actually standing on". Also read somewhere that Ukrainian forces were letting the tanks go through - then taking out the supply columns following a few miles behind. Then the tanks run out of fuel and are sitting ducks.
But yeah - made me think that the tank is kind of obsolete (see also - impact of drones) .
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I like to think the Ukrainians have an intimate knowledge of the Russian army.
 
Kaka Tim said:
i posted this about the handheld stuff on another thread
Those NLAW and javelin anti-tank missiles are a crucial factor - hand held, accurate, relatively simple to use and can take out any tank with one hit. I was a but surprised by how many tanks the Ukrainian army claimed the took out in the first few days so did some research - and yeah, they are really effective and a real advantage to a defender. The NLAW costs £20,000. A Russian battle tank - fuck knows - a million or ten? The Ukrainian army are getting thousands of these missiles.

They are easy to use and you can have guys with these all spread over a large area. Maybe they get a mobile message that an armoured column is coming to this junction a few miles away (Ukraine will be getting all of NATOs surveillance info) - they hoof it over there - fire off a few of anti tank missiles and fuck off sharpish. Not sure how Russia can win against that sort of mobile defence in depth. They will be a bit like the napoleon's army in spain where they "only owned the land they were actually standing on". Also read somewhere that Ukrainian forces were letting the tanks go through - then taking out the supply columns following a few miles behind. Then the tanks run out of fuel and are sitting ducks.
But yeah - made me think that the tank is kind of obsolete (see also - impact of drones) .
Click to expand...

Yeah, war is fundamentally about resource, I did think about the cost benefit ratio of missiles vs tanks after my post. Also the difference in training needs , build cost , fuel needed to get to the battle, etc., etc.. On all counts the missile wins hands down.
 
Kaka Tim said:
i posted this about the handheld stuff on another thread
Those NLAW and javelin anti-tank missiles are a crucial factor - hand held, accurate, relatively simple to use and can take out any tank with one hit. I was a but surprised by how many tanks the Ukrainian army claimed the took out in the first few days so did some research - and yeah, they are really effective and a real advantage to a defender. The NLAW costs £20,000. A Russian battle tank - fuck knows - a million or ten? The Ukrainian army are getting thousands of these missiles.

They are easy to use and you can have guys with these all spread over a large area. Maybe they get a mobile message that an armoured column is coming to this junction a few miles away (Ukraine will be getting all of NATOs surveillance info) - they hoof it over there - fire off a few of anti tank missiles and fuck off sharpish. Not sure how Russia can win against that sort of mobile defence in depth. They will be a bit like the napoleon's army in spain where they "only owned the land they were actually standing on". Also read somewhere that Ukrainian forces were letting the tanks go through - then taking out the supply columns following a few miles behind. Then the tanks run out of fuel and are sitting ducks.
But yeah - made me think that the tank is kind of obsolete (see also - impact of drones) .
Click to expand...

Tanks have been obsolete for some time. Useful to have but basically the battleship of the battlefield.

By the time your using tanks you should have already been in a position to win by knocking out the enemy airforce, Comms and logistics. The tanks then move in supported by infantry to take the ground itself.
 
YouSir said:
Read that there was one guy who was attempting to reform the whole lot (Serdyukov) but got on the wrong side of all those making a heap of money from the military corruption so he was out. Gerasimov was the politically pliant replacement who's also from Kazan, so not viewed as a risk for accumulating power to himself. Hence the end of a lot of reforms and, presumably, the shocking state of the military now. Money's been spent, it's just not gone anywhere useful.
Click to expand...
I suspect this might have only be unique in the scale and blatancy.

A380 said:
So, this chap nicked the £400k propellers from his own ship, replacing them with cheaper ones to cover his tracks.
www.maritime-executive.com

Russian CO Under Investigation for Stealing His Own Ship's Propellers

A Russian Navy officer is under investigation for conspiring to steal two bronze propellers from his...
www.maritime-executive.com www.maritime-executive.com
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Diamond said:
For sure - I think this is a major factor.

Can you imagine though - it would be like us being led by Bill Bailey in a war with France.
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why him? i am crap at actors so idk but wouldn't it be more like maybe idris elba or tom hardy, leading us into battle.
 
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