Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[bimble]

This person says they fear that martial law will mean you can’t leave the country and mass conscription .

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I dunno what the consensus on twitter is for the thread but wtf is this weapon? Is it one of those vacuum bombs? It's a fucking huge explosion.

 

[Weller]

not to mention he's still getting a billion pounds a day for the gas

TBF he isn’t cut off from the world; the rest of the autocrats are all on his side and are all still trading with him with no sanctions in place or even mooted (with the exception of Orban).

Even India and Pakistan are on board with this, which must be some sort of first (in terms of agreement between the two).

I should have said most the world but yeah I guess the sanctions wont probably change his plans military rule just makes easier if hes now totally past caring
WW3 is a worry with a few close nuke capable countries on board

 

[Idris2002]

europe's such a special place

Nothing bad ever happens there.

The regime seems to have squared Russian anthropology. The statement I mentioned further up the thread has brought a response from the official body of anthropologists and ethnologists of Russia - and not in a good way. They talk about "protecting the people of Donbass", and inevitably mention "denazification".

The original statement against the war is apparently being denounced as foreign.

 

[LDC]

I dunno what the consensus on twitter is for the thread but wtf is this weapon? Is it one of those vacuum bombs? It's a fucking huge explosion.

Might not be one specific weapon, could be ammunition or fuel storage being hit and going off.

 

[Bingoman]

What's a vacuum Bomb???

 

[two sheds]

It looks like Putin was on a auto-rant, threats, false claims, threats, more false claims & more threats.

sounding more and more like a trumpski

 

[LDC]

What's a vacuum Bomb???

Slang/media term for thermobaric munition. Here's quick overview...

What are vacuum bombs and is Russia using them in Ukraine?

Thermobaric weapons, sometimes called vacuum bombs, use powdered metal to create a rapidly expanding fireball. Under international law, they must only be used against military targets, not civilians.

www.newscientist.com

 

[Weller]

I dunno what the consensus on twitter is for the thread but wtf is this weapon? Is it one of those vacuum bombs? It's a fucking huge explosion.

I posted a link above to hd CBS actual news live footage of one of the explosions now getting closer to Kyiv when it happened this morning asking it they are 2 flashes a bit apart there's been a few over the last few nights on live streams but not all as big probably but very hard to tell distance etc at night but some distance I was told due to when the bang gets heard after flash

The camera man though actually said looks like it was nuke after 2nd bigger flash but looks more like vaccuum or thermobaric weapon to me I expect theyve seen a few big bombs over the years too so maybe be bigger than theyve seen in past

 

[Weller]

What's a vacuum Bomb???

Like this they have been taking a few launchers in and theres a fair few in the long convoy probably

 

[spitfire]

.

 

[bimble]

Absolutely no idea of veracity of this. It is on Bloomberg news site.

 

[The39thStep]

Good grief

US could sanction India after it abstained on Ukraine vote at UN

Senior US diplomat says Biden administration hopes ‘India will find it’s now time to further distance itself’ from Russia

www.independent.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

I don’t know how much of ‘the west’s response is to do with concern for the people of Ukraine or their right to self determination and how much of it (the moves being made to defend Ukraine and cripple / punish Russia, the choice to ratchet up and play the game) are to do with concerns about what would happen next if they did not intervene.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
There are a whole range of politicians who comprise "the west" and there will be a range of concerns and levels of comprehension and motives, and there seems to be a massive overlap amongst them around arming Ukraine. It is seen as the obviously correct thing to do. On urban too. We even have 'funny' memes about IKEA flat pack weaponry.

To oppose that logic is basically appeasement < that is the dynamic we have already got to. Is there any British MP publicly saying not to arm Ukraine? Who would dare? Corbyn has come close in suggesting "skipping out the war" and getting straight to the negotiating table, but not said we mustn't supply arms explicitly that I am aware of.

The case for military intervention out of "concern" needs to be spelt out clearly - how does it help? What does it achieve? How is it not counterproductive?

Absolute primacy for me is what is best for Ukranian people on the ground. If more arms achieves something "better" for Ukrainians then I would (with sadness) support it, but I cannot see how it does and reading the analysis of the war experts I've yet to see anyone saying by providing more weapons then that will create a resolution to this invasion.

 

[Dogsauce]

Europe endless

Tbf, the US used them to frazzle scumbags hiding in caves in Tora Bora. There is a bit of a moral gulf between this and firing them off in residential areas.

 

[Dom Traynor]

* Chess nerd intervention *

I don't think any actual chess player would talk about '4D chess', fwiw. 2D chess is hard enough not to need to double the number of dimensions. Whenever I hear the term '4D chess', I always assume the person has very little idea what they're on about.

That's the kind of response I would expect from a 2D chess player tbh

 

[ska invita]

Really good (long) thread.

in that thread it says "On the other hand, the odds against the Ukrainians are not as bad as the odds against Finland were in the Winter War. Ukraine has 11 times the population of Winter War Finland, and the armed forces are roughly equal in number to the Kremlin's invasion force."

Is that right? I remember reading early on that they were greatly outnumbered - 2 to 1 IIRC

 

[Ax^]

Good grief

US could sanction India after it abstained on Ukraine vote at UN

Senior US diplomat says Biden administration hopes ‘India will find it’s now time to further distance itself’ from Russia

www.independent.co.uk

tbf Modi is another fucking nationlist wanker who should get shoot by someone in his own admistration

nasty cunt

 

[bimble]

in that thread it says "On the other hand, the odds against the Ukrainians are not as bad as the odds against Finland were in the Winter War. Ukraine has 11 times the population of Winter War Finland, and the armed forces are roughly equal in number to the Kremlin's invasion force."

Is that right? I remember reading early on that they were greatly outnumbered - 2 to 1 IIRC

He is just talking about the 190,000 (?) Russian troops that have already been sent to do the conquering so I think about right, not counting Ukrainian reservists & volunteers.

How Ukraine's military compares in size to Russia's

The decision to invade will very likely lead to significant loss of life on both sides.

metro.co.uk

 

[LDC]

Absolute primacy for me is what is best for Ukranian people on the ground. If more arms achieves something "better" for Ukrainians then I would (with sadness) support it, but I cannot see how it does and reading the analysis of the war experts I've yet to see anyone saying by providing more weapons then that will create a resolution to this invasion.

I think you're dogmatically stuck on your position and not acknowledging the reality because you don't like it. The supply and training of AT weapons and training to use them has been a massive help in resistance to the invasion so far. By your logic these should never have been given, and so Ukraine would be in a worse position, the resolution that you seem to want by default is a Russian victory.

 

[Diamond]

Ukraine war: Putin prompts fears that ‘the worst is yet to come’

Moscow aims to take ‘full control’ of Ukraine capital by diplomatic or military means, according to France

www.theguardian.com

So Putin initiated a 90 minute call with Macron. The reported initial outcome is what you would expect but if he’s talking for that time what back channel stuff is also going on. First tiny ray of hope off the battlefield or not?

Hmm...this looks like a sign of weakness to me.

 

[cupid_stunt]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
There are a whole range of politicians who comprise "the west" and there will be a range of concerns and levels of comprehension and motives, and there seems to be a massive overlap amongst them around arming Ukraine. It is seen as the obviously correct thing to do. On urban too. We even have 'funny' memes about IKEA flat pack weaponry.

To oppose that logic is basically appeasement < that is the dynamic we have already got to. Is there any British MP publicly saying not to arm Ukraine? Who would dare? Corbyn has come close in suggesting "skipping out the war" and getting straight to the negotiating table, but not said we mustn't supply arms explicitly that I am aware of.

The case for military intervention out of "concern" needs to be spelt out clearly - how does it help? What does it achieve? How is it not counterproductive?

Absolute primacy for me is what is best for Ukranian people on the ground. If more arms achieves something "better" for Ukrainians then I would (with sadness) support it, but I cannot see how it does and reading the analysis of the war experts I've yet to see anyone saying by providing more weapons then that will create a resolution to this invasion.

It seems what you are saying is -

a - Ukraine shouldn't decide how they want to deal with the invasion of their country.
b- the west should refuse their requests for weapons.
c - the west should turn their back on Ukraine.
d - Ukraine should just bend over and get butt fucked by Putin.

None of this current situation is ideal, far from it, but you are not helping with pontificating, whilst not coming up with any sensible suggestions of a way forward.

 

[existentialist]

* Chess nerd intervention *

I don't think any actual chess player would talk about '4D chess', fwiw. 2D chess is hard enough not to need to double the number of dimensions. Whenever I hear the term '4D chess', I always assume the person has very little idea what they're on about.

* completely not a chess nerd reply *

Even as someone who can't usually beat someone older than 10 at chess, I've always thought it was a ridiculously hyperbolic claim

 

[LDC]

Don't worry, Corbyn has hinted about skipping the war and going straight to negotiations. I mean, aside from negotiating actually happening and not going anywhere, what does he suggest ffs?

 

[existentialist]

This person says they fear that martial law will mean you can’t leave the country and mass conscription .

I think mass conscription would be a very unwise idea. Given that it's likely that the citizenry is more well-informed than those already sequestered away in the army, plonking a load of reluctant, untrained such civilians into the military would seem to be likely to only make things worse.

 

[RD2003]

It seems what you are saying is -

a - Ukraine shouldn't decide how they want to deal with the invasion of their country.
b- the west should refuse their requests for weapons.
c - the west should turn their back on Ukraine.
d - Ukraine should just bend over and get butt fucked by Putin.

None of this current situation is ideal, far from it, but you are not helping with pontificating, whilst not coming up with any sensible suggestions of a way forward.

Who do you imagine you're helping?

 

[Ax^]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
There are a whole range of politicians who comprise "the west" and there will be a range of concerns and levels of comprehension and motives, and there seems to be a massive overlap amongst them around arming Ukraine. It is seen as the obviously correct thing to do. On urban too. We even have 'funny' memes about IKEA flat pack weaponry.

To oppose that logic is basically appeasement < that is the dynamic we have already got to. Is there any British MP publicly saying not to arm Ukraine? Who would dare? Corbyn has come close in suggesting "skipping out the war" and getting straight to the negotiating table, but not said we mustn't supply arms explicitly that I am aware of.

The case for military intervention out of "concern" needs to be spelt out clearly - how does it help? What does it achieve? How is it not counterproductive?

Absolute primacy for me is what is best for Ukranian people on the ground. If more arms achieves something "better" for Ukrainians then I would (with sadness) support it, but I cannot see how it does and reading the analysis of the war experts I've yet to see anyone saying by providing more weapons then that will create a resolution to this invasion.

if the Ukrainian people want to fight are we to tell them to stop...

if they want arms give it to them, jesus i'd give them aircraft

if they want peace negotiations who are we to tell them to stop..

self determination for the populace of the ukraines is what i want

**from the guy who brought in the happy ikea weapons meme

 

[bimble]

I think mass conscription would be a very unwise idea. Given that it's likely that the citizenry is more well-informed than those already sequestered away in the army, plonking a load of reluctant, untrained such civilians into the military would seem to be likely to only make things worse.

Even more unwise, there are mentions online of a piece of legislation under consideration there that would make protesting against the war punishable by being conscripted to fight in it.

 

[Ax^]

I dunno what the consensus on twitter is for the thread but wtf is this weapon? Is it one of those vacuum bombs? It's a fucking huge explosion.

no idea but the Russian are targetting oil pipe lines and fuel depo's

i'd not like to be close to this if it went off

 

[Indeliblelink]

Good grief

US could sanction India after it abstained on Ukraine vote at UN

Senior US diplomat says Biden administration hopes ‘India will find it’s now time to further distance itself’ from Russia

www.independent.co.uk

I noticed that India leases it's nuclear submarines from Russia. I wander if that might be why.

India signs $3 billion contract with Russia for lease of a nuclear submarine

Under the pact, Russia will have to deliver the Akula-1 class submarine, to be known as Chakra III, to the Indian Navy by 2025.

www.defensenews.com