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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

I feel like there is almost a gleeful tone to the response of Western countries as, after 80 years of messy, grey, murky morality, they finally have a clear Bad Guy that can be hated, doing unambiguously Bad Things. WWII was the last Just War and so much of the national psyche of all western nations is still shaped by it. Those who were on the Right Side want to relive their glory. Those on the Wrong Side want to fix history by doing it right this time. The consequence is a real enthusiasm for identifying Putin as the new Hitler and giving a performance for just how against him we all are.

Just an observation, nothing intended in terms of the rights and wrongs of it.
The Soviets were also on the Right Side and because of that Putin has also co-opted the clear Bad Guy narrative ("we are de-nazifying Ukraine") to drive his wars (both the seperatist insurgency and the current invasion). Everyone now seems to be falling back on the WWII narratives. Hopefully it doesn't go further than bloviating over past glories

...also an observation. It's all become a massive shitshow... :(
 
How long is the mud season? This post says that more than one column is stuck in the mud near Kyiv.



Far as I can tell it starts from when the ground unfreezes (end of March, though evidently to some extent earlier)... Then presumably continues until it's hot enough that things dry out quickly (from Kyiv's climate on wiki there's actually more rain in the summer). The autumn seems to be worse. As discovered by both Hitler and Boney.
 
It isn't all that relevant to how Russia views itself. Endless about this subject tracts have been written about this by more intelligent people than me and you. And ultimately, it's because of how Russia feels about itself (or how the people in Russia that politically matter do), that the present tragedy is happening.
i used to do a pub quiz at this pub where there was a mensa team. they never won, i routinely beat them. after listening to one too many of their interminable 'it's not fair' rants i had to point out they could be as intelligent as newton or einstein, but if they didn't know the answers they wouldn't win. so i have no respect for intelligence as such. and neither should you. ignorance and intelligence is an awful combination, yet one we see all too often.
 
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How long is the mud season? This post says that more than one column is stuck in the mud near Kyiv.

If it's anything like where I live in Poland- as long as winter lasts. Where I live right now is a proper pig. Snow falls, it seeps into the ground, the ground freezes overnight and then melts in the morning breaking up the earth and causing a ton of slippy slimy mud.

If it keeps snowing it could last quite a while longer, it's not uncommon for it to snow right up until the end of march here, and with climate change the spring is disappearing so who knows?

A few years ago we had continuing snow until April .
 
The Soviets were also on the Right Side and because of that Putin has also co-opted the clear Bad Guy narrative ("we are de-nazifying Ukraine") to drive his wars (both the seperatist insurgency and the current invasion). Everyone now seems to be falling back on the WWII narratives. Hopefully it doesn't go further than bloviating over past glories

...also an observation. It's all become a massive shitshow... :(
The Soviets ended up on the right side, but started off on the wrong side. You know, invading Finland, Poland, the Baltic states etc. After being right briefly, they quickly reverted to being on the wrong side, at least if you were Eastern European, Crimean Tatar, Crimean Italian, Pontic Greek, Chechen etc. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Soviets had lots and lots of wrongs
 
The Soviets ended up on the right side, but started off on the wrong side. You know, invading Finland, Poland, the Baltic states etc. After being right briefly, they quickly reverted to being on the wrong side, at least if you were Eastern European, Crimean Tatar, Crimean Italian, Pontic Greek, Chechen etc. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Soviets had lots and lots of wrongs
and stalin had got rid of all the rights and indeed all the trots
 
The Soviets ended up on the right side, but started off on the wrong side. You know, invading Finland, Poland, the Baltic states etc. After being right briefly, they quickly reverted to being on the wrong side, at least if you were Eastern European, Crimean Tatar, Crimean Italian, Pontic Greek, Chechen etc. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Soviets had lots and lots of wrongs
I am aware of that. Doesn't stop them leaning just as hard on the WWII narrative as our lot though, does it?
 
Probably nothing but a Romanian Airforce MIG-21 that was flying near the Black Sea disappeared off radar a few hours ago, a helicopter that went out to look for it also crashed killing a crew of 7.
They mention bad weather might be a factor.

 
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And has the glorious revolution of 1688 and the landing of the future Henry vii been so easily forgotten, let alone the 1798 year of the French. Sadly, weepiper, ignorance rather than splodgeness abounds
Clears throat…

You mean apart from:

The Dutch in 1667

The change of government following invasion by a mostly Dutch army in 1688

The American Navy and Marine Corps in 1778

The French in 1797

( And that’s to say nothing of the raids, but not really invasions, by the Barbary States against the South coast in the 1600s).

Bloody hell your grasp of British actual history (as opposed to the National Myth of British Exceptionalism created and clung to by our ruling elite) apears even weaker than the simplistic views on the Russia/Ukrainian situations you seem to base your pontifications on…
 
Germany “seizing” that guys €600 million super yacht, what does that mean?
Does the thing belong to the German government now are they going to put it on eBay or is it just he can’t play with his boat until this is over & sanctions lifted?

The French, not to be left out, have just seized another yacht, belonging to the boss of some big Russian oil company.

Not sure of the answer to your question, there's certainly been suggestions that some countries will seize assets, and they could actually be totally forfeited.
 
apologies for the mail link but this is a more sober analysis, Putin is NOT crazy, the Russian invasion is NOT failing: BILL ROGGIO
i agree with that artilce <i think its very likely the case

Absolutely nobody has said they think Ukraine is 'winnning' just that there is no way that this ends up, from here, long-ish term, as a win for Russia, or for Putin himself.
But your man there says "Today, Putin has calculated that taking Ukraine by force is in his and Russia's interest".
I don't see how that stands up? I mean if you calculate something totally wrongly you're not very good at calculating are you.
people are suggesting that Ukraine is winning, they see and hold out hope in a military win for Ukraine, and they are actively perpetuating the war and encouraging its escalation. Our foreign secretary encourages us to go and fight in it even!

European countries and the US want to increase the scale of fighting by pumping in more weapons. Hilary Clinton paints a rosy picture of Afghanistan in 1979!

-IF they see it as winnable then there is a potential justification for increasing the arms, even though I expect it is doomed, with an emphasis on doom and death of innocents.
-IF they dont really see it as winnable then they are responsible for senselessly killing Ukrainians and destroying the country, all for a larger selfish political objective.
-IF they're not even thinking about whether its winnable or not then its grossly negligent.

I expect amongst the US + European politicians there are people in both camps, the first naive (file under interventionist armchair murderers of the Blair type), the second cold blooded strategists using Ukrainians as pawns.

I hate typing posts like this, but thats the way it looks to me.
At the front of my mind is what is the best outcome for Ukrainian people from where we are? What is the response for people who are truly anti-war?
 
Expanding on an earlier post.
Im not sure that Russia can win this militarily - as in completely conquering Ukraine. I think there was an assumption by pretty much everyone (especially the Russians) that this would be like either of the gulf wars - airstrikes would take out key infrastructure and any major defensive positions, tanks etc. The Urkanian air force would be wiped out. Their communications would be kaput. Then the massively superior Russian army roll in an most of the urkanians would judge they would rather live than fight.
But a week in and Kiev is still very much not captured, the Ukrainian government is very much still there with full communications, Russia has suffered heavy losses - its troops are less than enthusiastic, they have serious supply problems and they are mud bound.
Meanwhile the invasion - and the early successes - has prompted a wave of Ukrainian nationalist defiance and - crucially - hope. I definitely think the longer this goes on the worse it gets for Russia - sure they can take Kiev - (but its will take time and it will be gruesome) - but what about the rest of Ukraine? Its quite a hike to get the bulk of their Army (and their fuel and ammo and food) from Kiev in the north east to Lvov and Odessa - across country where every other road junction or bridge or village could have a couple of citizens militia waiting with western supplied weapons that can take out a main battle tank with one shot.
Ruasia's best hope was a blitzkreig style approach that toppled the regime, cowed the population and seriously disrupted organised defence - but that has failed. If anything the Ukrainian defence is more organised and adapting quickly - they see to have been much better prepared for this. They will also be getting not just western weapons (including things like night vision equipment which the Russians lack and will give them a real advantage) they will be getting high level NATO intelligence about enemy troop movements, supply dumps, plans etc.
The Russians will also have to occupy vast areas of very hostile country.
Also - in the age of moblile communications - the ukrianian government can organsie and meet online - they dont have to be in one place. If (when?:() Zelensky is taken out - they will have plans for who takes over.

Meanwhile they may have to deal with the effect of economic sanctions, growing unhappiness at home and an increasingly demoralised army.
 
It'll get sold for a song to some other thieving cunt who belongs at the end of a rope probably.
I'll suspect he will get it back eventually a few years from now when the war is over and probably after an expensive legal battle, whether it will be worth having after a few years tied up in the harbour without any maintenance is a different matter.
If it gets sold at auction the new owner always runs the risk of it getting seized again if he sails it somwhere with a more friendly disposition to Russian oligarchs (or their cash at least).
Seizing property in London is a far more interesting idea than seizing yachts, flats and houses stay in one place and far more can be done with them in the short term rather than just leaving them in the harbour. I can't believe that Gove has even suggested it, I can't wait to tell Mrs Q about this. She fucking hates Gove with a passion, the idea he has suggested something she approves of will blow her mind.
 
I'll suspect he will get it back eventually a few years from now when the war is over and probably after an expensive legal battle, whether it will be worth having after a few years tied up in the harbour without any maintenance is a different matter.
If it gets sold at auction the new owner always runs the risk of it getting seized again if he sails it somwhere with a more friendly disposition to Russian oligarchs (or their cash at least).
Seizing property in London is a far more interesting idea than seizing yachts, flats and houses stay in one place and far more can be done with them in the short term rather than just leaving them in the harbour. I can't believe that Gove has even suggested it, I can't wait to tell Mrs Q about this. She fucking hates Gove with a passion, the idea he has suggested something she approves of will blow her mind.
or she'll change her mind due to gove's filthy touch on the plan
 
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