Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[TopCat]

Zelensky planned to put his peace plan to Biden, Congress and Trump this week. It doesn’t seem to have happened as no leaks.

Meanwhile other peace plans immediately dismissed by the man.

• China and Brazil on Friday pressed ahead with an effort to gather developing countries behind a plan to end Russia’s war in Ukraine, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s dismissal of the initiative as serving Moscow’s interests. Seventeen countries attended a meeting on the sidelines of the UN general assembly chaired by China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, and Brazilian foreign policy adviser Celso Amorim. Wang told reporters they discussed the need to prevent escalation in the war, avoid the use of weapons of mass destruction and prevent attacks on nuclear power plants. Zelenskyy, in a speech to the assembly earlier this week, questioned why China and Brazil were proposing an alternative to his own peace formula. Proposing “alternatives, half-hearted settlement plans, so-called sets of principles” would only give Moscow the political space to continue the war, he said.

 

[TopCat]

I stand corrected. Zelensky has presented the plan to Trump. I assume then Biden as well. Surprised no details have emerged yet.

• Zelenskyy later described the meeting as “very productive”. He wrote on X: “I presented our Victory Plan, and we thoroughly reviewed the situation in Ukraine and the consequences of the war for our people. Many details were discussed. We share the common view that the war in Ukraine must be stopped. Putin cannot win. Ukrainians must prevail.”

 

[Yossarian]

I don't know, why would anybody take issue with a plan led by those fascist motherfuckers in Beijing who have declared a "no limits" partnership with Russia?

 

[The39thStep]

Zelensky planned to put his peace plan to Biden, Congress and Trump this week. It doesn’t seem to have happened as no leaks.

Meanwhile other peace plans immediately dismissed by the man.

• China and Brazil on Friday pressed ahead with an effort to gather developing countries behind a plan to end Russia’s war in Ukraine, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s dismissal of the initiative as serving Moscow’s interests. Seventeen countries attended a meeting on the sidelines of the UN general assembly chaired by China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, and Brazilian foreign policy adviser Celso Amorim. Wang told reporters they discussed the need to prevent escalation in the war, avoid the use of weapons of mass destruction and prevent attacks on nuclear power plants. Zelenskyy, in a speech to the assembly earlier this week, questioned why China and Brazil were proposing an alternative to his own peace formula. Proposing “alternatives, half-hearted settlement plans, so-called sets of principles” would only give Moscow the political space to continue the war, he said.

Aljazeera on 23rd September quoted Zensky as saying the “entire plan” will be ready by “early November” . Elements of the plan have already been circulated to key US officials presumably for briefing Biden before the 'presentation' and some have been mentioned publicly.

Aljazera's summary is quite useful

What is Zelenskyy’s ‘Victory Plan’ against Russia?

Long-range missiles and urgent NATO membership for Ukraine: Here’s more about Zelenskyy’s plan for victory.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[TopCat]

Aljazeera on 23rd September quoted Zensky as saying the “entire plan” will be ready by “early November” . Elements of the plan have already been circulated to key US officials presumably for briefing Biden before the 'presentation' and some have been mentioned publicly.

Aljazera's summary is quite useful

What is Zelenskyy’s ‘Victory Plan’ against Russia?

Long-range missiles and urgent NATO membership for Ukraine: Here’s more about Zelenskyy’s plan for victory.

www.aljazeera.com

Thanks. Yes several details now revealed.

What do you think of them?

 

[The39thStep]

Thanks. Yes several details now revealed.

What do you think of them?

Firstly I think the US elections provide a disincentive to any immediate rejection/agreement by the US . I can't see a debate about red lines and the threat of nuclear war being helpful to either Trump or Harris. It's also been reported that Zelensky and Scholz have agreed to a further 'peace' conference that this time will include Russia. Scholz, who is facing electoral issues himself, is quoted as saying "I believe that now is the time to discuss how to arrive at peace from this state of war, indeed at a faster pace," I can't see any momentum in more countries coming on board to support Ukraines peace conferences and tbh I can't see Russia accepting an invitation. So this might be background noise and just a way of trying to hold on to those countries outside of NATO who attend these things.

As for the proposals, that we know about, it reads more like a wishlist than a strategy and I suspect that the most likely outcome would be some concessions and lots of fudge. I think the bigger question is what is plan B, or should there be a plan B, and if this is the case and bearing in mind the fall out after the failed second Ukraine offensive how this is framed by both Ukraine and NATO. The narrative that Ukraine did its best but was let down by its allies is one that Ukraine's allies will want to avoid but one that may well be pushed by some elements in Ukraine itself.

 

[StoneRoad]

"Double tap" attack on Sumy hospital

Double attack on medical facility, dead and wounded: Сonsequences of shelling of Sumy

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

7 dead and 12 seriously wounded - including a Dr & nurse from the now destroyed A&E department.

e2a - sadly, I suspect that these figures will increase.

​

 

[Dystopiary]

"Double tap" attack on Sumy hospital

Double attack on medical facility, dead and wounded: Сonsequences of shelling of Sumy

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

7 dead and 12 seriously wounded - including a Dr & nurse from the now destroyed A&E department

​

8 now known to have been killed in the attack on the Sumy hospital and "at least six other civilians were killed throughout Ukraine over the past 24 hours, authorities said."

link from the Guardian

 

[teuchter]

Meanwhile other peace plans immediately dismissed by the man.

Can you summarise what the China/Brazil peace plan actually is, and why it should not be dismissed?

 

[ska invita]

What do you think of them?

Theres nothing new in it apart from wanting to fire into Russia more