UK courtroom to hear evidence against the official narrative of 9/11

[taffboy gwyrdd]

In your long experience of bombing, you think remote bombing is best? What gauge are you using? Maybe there were reason other than total deaths involved that drove the coverage - such as potential global implications.

What is wrong with you people?

If I didn't want to get caught I wouldnt be at the scene of the crime when it happened. Maybe they wanted to be caught, but that doesn't explain the reported behaviour on attempts to arrest them, nor does it explain the failure to claim responsibility.

But I accept that weirdness, stupidity and unconventional motives and behaviour are very much in existence. I do not take the above as evidence of false flag. In this case at least I am not really one of "you people". Perhaps you could read the last couple of my sentences in that post again. People who instinctively trust or distrust official accounts on the basis of nothing but instinct are not rational.

 

[butchersapron]

If I didn't want to get caught I wouldnt be at the scene of the crime when it happened. Maybe they wanted to be caught, but that doesn't explain the reported behaviour on attempts to arrest them, nor does it explain the failure to take responsibility.

But I accept that weirdness, stupidity and unconventional motives and behaviour are very much in existence. I do not take the above as evidence of false flag. In this case at least I am not really one of "you people". Perhaps you could read the last couple of my sentences in that post again. People who instinctively trust or distrust official accounts on the basis of nothing but instinct are not rational.

Seriously, we all know that you're trying to establish that people who aren't loons like you are unthinking believers so not living up to what they demand of others. But you're wrong. And a loon. It's even bursting through your first para above no matter how hard you try to suppress it.

 

[editor]

If the cops started arresting anyone and everyone they had some sort of vague and hugely inconclusive intelligence about, the loons would really have something to shout about. And for once, they'd be right.

 

[Pickman's model]

If the cops started arresting anyone and everyone they had some sort of vague and hugely inconclusive intelligence about, the loons would really have something to shout about. And for once, they'd be right.

but no one would know because the loons would be the first inside.

 

[JimW]

If I didn't want to get caught I wouldnt be at the scene of the crime when it happened. Maybe they wanted to be caught, but that doesn't explain the reported behaviour on attempts to arrest them, nor does it explain the failure to claim responsibility.

But I accept that weirdness, stupidity and unconventional motives and behaviour are very much in existence. I do not take the above as evidence of false flag. In this case at least I am not really one of "you people". Perhaps you could read the last couple of my sentences in that post again. People who instinctively trust or distrust official accounts on the basis of nothing but instinct are not rational.

It's not even vaguely unconventional behaviour as far as I recall from other bombings. I can't get my head round the sort of mind that rushes off to false flag but can't imagine a scenario where you do this sort of thing without it being plotted like a film script.

 

[frogwoman]

there are any number of reasons why a terrorist who didn't want to get caught would be at the scene of the crime. somebody who has taken a bomb to a public place in order to kill innocents is hardly likely to be in the most rational frame of mind. they may have panicked. they may have not have known what to do next. they may have been unsure whether to run or not. they may have actually have been crazy.

we are not likely to do such a thing. you can't say how you would or wouldn't have reacted as a terrorist letting off a bomb in an area full of kids since we would never do that in the first place. maybe he thought the blast would kill him and the fact that it didn't meant that he didn't know what to do. who fucking knows? a person who's just done that is likely to have all sorts of emotions going through their minds, fear, shock, maybe even guilt, it's impossible to say whether it's "rational" (and therefore plausible) for them to stay in the area since what they've done inherently isn't rational. i'd have thought it would be quite plausible that he could hang around in a daze tbh.

and it could be planned but we all know how shit can go wrong on the day even after intensive planning ...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Seriously, we all know that you're trying to establish that people who aren't loons like you are unthinking believers so not living up to what they demand of others. But you're wrong. And a loon. It's even bursting through your first para above no matter how hard you try to suppress it.

You don't know what I think, or what other people think of what I think. Why are you claiming to know what other people think of what I think? What is it based on? It's weird. I think there are way fewer "unthinking believers" here than in many places, it's why I post and read here.

The first para you refer to are just questions that occurred to me. All such behaviour as the Boston Bombings are weird, so it will have weirdnesses to it. It's no shocker and not much indication of anything.

Now, I am thinking of a single number and a specific colour. I challenge Madame Butchers to tell me what they are and what other people think they are.

Failing that, the full W D L F A Pts of Cardiff City's 1st season in the premiership would be impressive. Give it a whirl and be careful, as usual, as to how you walk with your crystal balls.

 

[frogwoman]

If the cops started arresting anyone and everyone they had some sort of vague and hugely inconclusive intelligence about, the loons would really have something to shout about. And for once, they'd be right.

they wouldn't shout about it, they never shout about anything real.

 

[frogwoman]

but no one would know because the loons supporters would be the ones doing the arresting.

corrected for you.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

So Butchers, in regards to Lanza, Holmes and the Boston bombings I have no big reason to doubt the general official accounts. I am interested in the psychotropic drug use of spree killers, but that's kind of different.

Sorry if that's not loon enough for your Gellar act to really pay off.

On the other hand, I stand by my original post that It is unlikely that the sort of people who pulled off Gladio and Iran / Contra suddenly decided not to bother with that kind of thing any more. Do you think they did decide to discontinue? Is it a guess or can you prove it?

 

[butchersapron]

You don't know what I think, or what other people think of what I think. Why are you claiming to know what other people think of what I think? What is it based on? It's weird. I think there are way fewer "unthinking believers" here than in many places, it's why I post and read here.

The first para you refer to are just questions that occurred to me. All such behaviour as the Boston Bombings are weird, so it will have weirdnesses to it. It's no shocker and not much indication of anything.

Now, I am thinking of a single number and a specific colour. I challenge Madame Butchers to tell me what they are and what other people think they are.

Failing that, the full W D L F A Pts of Cardiff City's 1st season in the premiership would be impressive. Give it a whirl and be careful, as usual, as to how you walk with your crystal balls.

I know what you think by what you say, and what you say that you think. This is really quite easy. And what questions just occurred to you? Which didn't? Come on. Let it out.

 

[sihhi]

On the other hand, I stand by my original post that It is unlikely that the sort of people who pulled off Gladio and Iran / Contra suddenly decided not to bother with that kind of thing any more. Do you think they did decide to discontinue? Is it a guess or can you prove it?

Do you know what Operation Gladio was? Or what the Iran-Contra affair was? How are they relevant here?

 

[butchersapron]

So Butchers, in regards to Lanza, Holmes and the Boston bombings I have no big reason to doubt the general official accounts. I am interested in the psychotropic drug use of spree killers, but that's kind of different.

Sorry if that's not loon enough for your Gellar act to really pay off.

On the other hand, I stand by my original post that It is unlikely that the sort of people who pulled off Gladio and Iran / Contra suddenly decided not to bother with that kind of thing any more. Do you think they did decide to discontinue? Is it a guess or can you prove it?

I think you're getting a bit fevered and obsessed, seeing a few things through a rather pathetic narrow prism. And please, ive seen better attempts at loaded and leading questions by my cat.

 

[butchersapron]

Do you know what Operation Gladio was? Or what the Iran-Contra affair was? How are they relevant here?

It looks like he thinks it was some bombing or something. Which says it all - or a lot at least.

 

[JimW]

...

On the other hand, I stand by my original post that It is unlikely that the sort of people who pulled off Gladio and Iran / Contra suddenly decided not to bother with that kind of thing any more. Do you think they did decide to discontinue? Is it a guess or can you prove it?

Can't see how their goals would be furthered by any false flag in this instance when they have the "leftest" conceivable US president OKing all the drone strikes they need. Where's the Italian left or the racalcitrant Sandinista regime in this scenario?

 

[butchersapron]

Can't see how their goals would be furthered by any false flag in this instance when they have the "leftest" conceivable US president OKing all the drone strikes they need. Where's the Italian left or the racalcitrant Sandinista regime in this scenario?

Molly and the crabapples are coming! No, there's nothing here that stands historical or critical scrutiny. Look how nimbly he leaps though from, i'm not saying it was a conspiracy to saying it was a conspiracy involving the whole of western europe, NATO, the middle east and the entire post-war years.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Can't see how their goals would be furthered by any false flag in this instance when they have the "leftest" conceivable US president OKing all the drone strikes they need. Where's the Italian left or the racalcitrant Sandinista regime in this scenario?

That's a generally fair point, though POTUS is ever more a puppet of other interests, Obama primarily governs for Wall Street.

The only motive for a Boston conspiracy I have heard relates to general "strategy of tension". As for the spree killings, the gun lobby think it's about gun control. I don't think false flags are necessary for that, these sprees are kind of inevitable, not least because of copy-cat effect. Why just top yourself these days? It's dull. take 20 kids out with you and you will go down in infamy. Likewise with Boston, the media handed terrorists exactly what they wanted. Worldwide frontpage plastering for 3 deaths is grossly disproportionate, no matter how tragic the deaths on an individual level.

As it happens, I think the whole pro/anti gun thing is a distraction on either side. The control would never be enforced and far more people will die from austerity. That's what the US left should be focussing on more IMO.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a generally fair point, though POTUS is ever more a puppet of other interests, Obama primarily governs for Wall Street.

The only motive for a Boston conspiracy I have heard relates to general "strategy of tension". As for the spree killings, the gun lobby think it's about gun control. I don't think false flags are necessary for that, these sprees are kind of inevitable, not least because of copy-cat effect. Why just top yourself these days? It's dull. take 20 kids out with you and you will go down in infamy. Likewise with Boston, the media handed terrorists exactly what they wanted. Worldwide frontpage plastering for 3 deaths is grossly disproportionate, no matter how tragic the deaths on an individual level.

As it happens, I think the whole pro/anti gun thing is a distraction on either side. The control would never be enforced and far more people will die from austerity. That's what the US left should be focussing on more IMO.

Tell us about a strategy of tension - what sort of scenarios do these things appear under. Are these realistic scenarios for the US right now?

They're not pick and mix you know. Insulting post-modernist loonery.

 

[Wilf]

You are getting desperate if you need to latch on to a poster's hypothetical potential as evidence of an event happening.

I'm guilty of this - in trying to expose the illogicalities of Jazz's '3 tests' I've pushed the debate back onto that illogical ground. The more difficult task is the one jonofarc tried above - trying to drag jazzz onto the grounds of Occam's razor and a sensible understanding of how geopolitics and power work.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm guilty of this - in trying to expose the illogicalities of Jazz's '3 tests' I've pushed the debate back onto that illogical ground. The more difficult task is the one jonofarc tried above - trying to drag jazzz onto the grounds of Occam's razor and a sensible understanding of how geopolitics and power work.

He won't be. It's 10+ years now. He just won't be. And he knows why, once he does it's over - he is over. He's more fragile than he lets on.

 

[JimW]

What we have of fairly well documented parapolitical state activity in recent years is all far more "mundane" AFAIK - renditions and black sites. Nothing even approaching your Kitson pseudo-gangs in the Six Counties that I'm aware of. No doubt a few honey pot Islamist groups on the go but can't see why they'd need to let them actually do anything.

 

[butchersapron]

What we have of fairly well documented parapolitical state activity in recent years is all far more "mundane" AFAIK - renditions and black sites. Nothing even approaching your Kitson pseudo-gangs in the Six Counties that I'm aware of. No doubt a few honey pot Islamist groups on the go but can't see why they'd need to let them actually do anything.

They even make big hollywood films about them.

This is where having proper functioning collective critical faculties plugged into real life politics and sources counts. Not this this taff-jazzz bollocks (not, not NOT tap jazz)

 

[JimW]

They even make big hollywood films about them.

...

Was going to say at least we'll get to know what happened when the next Jason Bourne comes out. About that level.

 

[Pickman's model]

They even make big hollywood films about them.

This is where having proper functioning collective critical faculties plugged into real life politics and sources counts. Not this this taff-jazzz bollocks (not, not NOT tap jazz)

and definitely not double tap jazzz

 

[sihhi]

Gladio was about channeling money to the intelligence community just as NATO itself was about bulking up the money to the military of Western allies/quasi-clients - to persuade/keep the pot boiling by non-bombing means in 99% of instances - elected governments to be pro-nuclear weapons and pro-NATO.




The 'let them go ape' "false" terror approach - in reality give free reign to your nutters was only applied in 2 countries - Italy and Turkey (to some extent the FDR). Gladio proves that in most cases significant arming of rightist extremists can lead to future danger and instability - the Turkish coup of 1980 gave the Soviet Union a shot in the arm when it was on the back foot over Afghanistan. In Italy the revelations in 1990 onwards weakened the political class significantly over that decade.
The problem is, loonery takes any and all acts of political violence in 1969-1984 Italy - the assasination of Moro and the murder of PierFrancesco Laruso alike - as 'Gladio state false flag'.

 

[JimW]

Gladio was about channeling money to the intelligence community just as NATO itself was about bulking up the money to the military of Western allies/quasi-clients - to persuade/keep the pot boiling by non-bombing means in 99% of instances - elected governments to be pro-nuclear weapons and pro-NATO...

And we're probably in a period where they have less worries in the West about funding approval than at any time since Christ knows when. Recall there was a narrative of UK agencies casting around for an enemy after the cool-down in Ireland but that's long past.
Be more likely to see the conventional forces trying to start an old-fashioned shooting war to get the money for some ships and tanks, I'd have thought.

 

[butchersapron]

... and then Boston...wtf?

 

[sihhi]

What we have of fairly well documented parapolitical state activity in recent years is all far more "mundane" AFAIK - renditions and black sites. Nothing even approaching your Kitson pseudo-gangs in the Six Counties that I'm aware of. No doubt a few honey pot Islamist groups on the go but can't see why they'd need to let them actually do anything.

There has been pro-US parapolitical activity in supporting the Santa Cruz separatist tendencies against Evo Morales, probably stuff has been happening to assist the opposition in Venezuela as well. I would think 99.5% of it has nothing to do with bombs - hence less loon focus.

Let's bear in mind that much of Iran-Contra was an attempt to provoke a military takeover of Iran against the nationalist Islamic regime and it didn't involve bombs. Much of the Contra funding and arming was happening via hollow companies from Florida dealing with central America, and the assistance of the governments in Honduras and Panama.

 

[Wilf]

He won't be. It's 10+ years now. He just won't be. And he knows why, once he does it's over - he is over. He's more fragile than he lets on.

Sorry to talk about you jazzz, but I do wonder if you are sometimes troubled by the question 'what if it ain't true'? And if you are, do you like the answer?

 

[Wilf]

An obvious point, but one of the things that really pisses me off about CTs is that they get in the way of a serious discussion of para-state activity (in both its mundane and more dramamtic forms).