Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
do you know if yer man was out on any of the parades of concerned citizens?
Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
- Thread starter mojo pixy
- Start date
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
It's been the blowback by some and commentators and press in their "defence"
Hoping they didn't attend a demo and maybe count themselves as one of those "with concerns about immigration". "silent majority", "not far right, just right"
Depressing either way
Good luck!
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Definitely not.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Well said. I think you have hit on a good point there. This stuff seems to be performative. If there is an intended audience of resentful people, then this performative cruelty makes no difference to their attitudes, as they are unaware of it.
Just wanted to jump on and say I’m sorry you’ve experienced poverty.
I’ve been skint, for years at a time especially the first six years of the kids lives. But not the same thing I don’t think.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I think it might be helpful to begin by asking him what he means by "us all".
Where the conversation goes after that depends on his answer to that question.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
That’s what I didn’t want to have to tackle this morning and will need to address when I have the energy.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I agree it's worth picking your moment carefully.
Do you have much of an idea of his politics?
Also, to what extent would your partner appreciate having a family visit turned into a (possible) political argument?
ETA If you disagree with his answer to the "us all" question, maybe helpful to talk about what your answer who "us all" is, and why.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
all the best family visits involve heated political arguments
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
"us all" is interesting isnt it; who do we lump ourselves together with, and why? What do we gain from being part of any particular "us all" (especially an "us all" that confers no tangible or even obvious benefit or support structures) and what does it tell others about how we see ourselves?
I'm intrigued.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Yes, exactly.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Genuinely appreciate that. Was child poverty; had a loving stable family but Dad was disabled from labouring and Mum had loads of jobs, mostly cleaning. Made me an angry young socialist.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Oh, he’s not got a political home, but he loves conspiracy. Often for the wrong reasons.
He’s often told me he firmly accepts that the BBC reversed the Orgreave footage. But when he explains why, you’re left wondering “what the fuck?”.
He’s a retired firefighter, and after retirement from that worked as a technician in a school science department. But despite his connection to the practical and to science, he believes all sorts of mad shit about JFK and Diana and moon landings.
So, yeah, we’ve had heated debates before now…
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It also makes people feel special, I think. I know something you don't.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I know a couple of conspiracy people over here . It’s a minefield once they get into full flow over a few beers, loads of random so called facts about what is ‘really’ going on that those who only engage with msm don’t know . Last week I was arguing with them about Freemasons , blood sacrifices or some other trash and went to the bar to get some drinks. Some random Portuguese bloke then says that he didn’t want to be rude but he overheard our discussion and he is a member of a local group called The Resistance and would I like to bring my friends to a meeting on chem trails .
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I have family members who are a very long way down the rabbit hole. I try just to avoid the subjects entirely tbh. It's not susceptible to rational discussion. But it's also not a healthy place for them to be in, and I can't help them. 
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It's one of problems with discussing peoples concerns. However much government thinks it responding it's never going to be enough.
Plus there are people who make sure they are unaware. That's those who are grown ups who think controls are what grown up sensible people should support.
But they don't want to know what that means in practice.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Reading Maya Goodfellow excellent book Hostile Environment there is a lot on migration in general. Not just about asylum seekers.
In fact one her arguments so far in the book is that the distinctions made between different kinds of migrants is part of the problem.
Take so called economic migrants. The mainstream discussion gets into how "we" need them. So then it goes into what kind of visas, what categories, skilled or unskilled etc
Ends up treating migrants as commodities not people.
Which is one of the problems with engaging with people who have concerns. One can end up accepting the parameters of the discussion without meaning to
And she says the distinction between skilled and unskilled isn't as commonsense and obvious as it may seem.
Looking at footnotes and this website came up
www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk
It was designed for teachers. However it gives a lot of historical info across British history in short pieces that are accessible to read. Little case studies of the different migrants who came here from Roman times.
She mentioned it as she recounts in book how she was asked on radio show with Melanie Phillips. Who went on about Europe being white and immigration being unsettling.
That people who support migrants coming here are virtue signalling. Seen that kind of criticism in some posts here.
In fact one her arguments so far in the book is that the distinctions made between different kinds of migrants is part of the problem.
Take so called economic migrants. The mainstream discussion gets into how "we" need them. So then it goes into what kind of visas, what categories, skilled or unskilled etc
Ends up treating migrants as commodities not people.
Which is one of the problems with engaging with people who have concerns. One can end up accepting the parameters of the discussion without meaning to
And she says the distinction between skilled and unskilled isn't as commonsense and obvious as it may seem.
Looking at footnotes and this website came up
About this site
Our Migration Story: The Making of Britain presents the often untold stories of the generations of migrants who came to and shaped the UK.
It was designed for teachers. However it gives a lot of historical info across British history in short pieces that are accessible to read. Little case studies of the different migrants who came here from Roman times.
She mentioned it as she recounts in book how she was asked on radio show with Melanie Phillips. Who went on about Europe being white and immigration being unsettling.
That people who support migrants coming here are virtue signalling. Seen that kind of criticism in some posts here.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Inflammatory rubbish. And they've potentially put that woman in danger.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Accusing someone of something that they didn't do and then doubling down when they're corrected and then refusing to apologise, looks like trolling. Sorry, chief.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You explained nothing, fella. Nada. Zip, Zero, Nul, Fuck all.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Afraid not. Yer man accused me of accusing him of "spouting arrant bollocks". I did no such thing. You're the one who's being a dick. You and my accuser. Okay, dickhead?
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