The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The plan is simply to cut immigration, thinking its an election winner, without any planning for future workforce development nationally
You have to earn £38,700 before your overseas partner/spouse can live in the UK
- Thread starter mwgdrwg
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You are absolutely right. When I worked for the Council every three years we'd end up meeting with providers to negotiate about them delivering the same service with less money being offered.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I don't think the plan is to cut immigration - it's simply to do anything that looks like it might curb immigration, or just make frothing loons who watch KGB news feel good.
It's just about limping to the GE. It's not about actually being a government, it's simply about mitigating losses, via Reform to Labour at the GE.
This is a big part of the problem. Due to a combination of training and education cuts, social security reforms, the housing crisis and eye watering student fees it's become virtually impossible to train in any kind of skilled work as an adult in the UK. Even if you can find a publicly funded course - and most training for skilled trades like being a chef is run by very expensive private companies - the DWP are likely to put a stop to it or decide you should go and do work related activity instead of actually training or studying for a decent job. Even things like nursing only comes with a training bursery of about £5000 a year, you can't even rent a room for that in a lot of cities.
Much of this was deliberate. A large part of Iain Duncan Smith's reforms were based on a 'work first' approach, imported from the US. Under this system the intention is to push people into taking the first job they are offered no matter how shit or low paid (or coerced into applying for under threat of sanction) rather than allowing them to go to college or attend training for more skilled work.
It's not that people in the UK don't want to be nurses, or chefs, or electricians or whatever. It's not even that salaries in those sectors are often fairly low, although that doesn't help. It's that's it's near impossible for most people to have the time and funds available to train for these jobs and keep a roof over their head whilst doing so.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
That’s a really informative post , thanks
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Of course there a sense of performance about it . Cabinet reshuffle and its lights , camera , action however depending on when the election is they also set up Labour into deciding whether to twist or stick with the legislation . The Tories may not be judged on whether they cut immigration or not but Labour will so it’s pass the baton .
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
While I disagree with having an income limit at all, at least the previous one was manageable for a lot of people, even many pensioners and most people working in the care sector. This is just insane. People working in the care sector are underpaid, but £36k just is not going to happen for most job roles, and a lot of them will have no choice but to leave the UK rather than never live with their partners and children again.
£26k might be too low in London, but in a lot of areas of the country it'd be reasonable. A £10k raise would be something that a lot of businesses genuinely could not afford. And it wouldn't be enough for the extra thresholds for any kids they have, either.
£26k might be too low in London, but in a lot of areas of the country it'd be reasonable. A £10k raise would be something that a lot of businesses genuinely could not afford. And it wouldn't be enough for the extra thresholds for any kids they have, either.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
My son manages a cafe bar with full day menu and he says £26k is not enough for a qualified and experienced chef in Manchester .
How do we ensure decent wages if businesses can’t afford them?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Would he think £38,700 is a realistic salary, though? (I wrote the wrong amount before).
If there are going to be any income limits at all (there shouldn't be) this is waaay beyond anything reasonable.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Shouldn’t think so and if you read my earlier post I said that I didn’t think that income level was right
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
There’s a reason why the populist right in this country hasn’t been pushed that hard yet by Bannonite dark money and social media fuckery - they’re waiting for the Starmer’s centrist pillocks to take charge, then It’ll all be ‘liberal elite’ ‘wokery’ and ‘think of the mens’, the creation of a crisis to put them out of power for generations. See what has become of the establishment left in other European countries like France, nowhere to be seen. That’s the future Labour faces.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
No reason whatsoever to think Labour wouldn't pull the exact same shit.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Anyhow, this increase is just the same elitist shit they’ve been playing for years. Only the wealthy are welcome and free to love who they please. Small people don’t count.
It reminds me of the sickness I felt in my stomach years ago under Major (or possibly Thatcher) when they were discussing the handover of Hong Kong, and how they wanted to look at immigration rules so ‘top people’ (their words) could come here. Fuck everyone else.
And they specifically changed the rules on pet passports so Chris Patten could ship his dogs to and from Hong Kong (when governor there) without weeks of quarantine. They rate their own pets more important than people. Fuck their faces.
It reminds me of the sickness I felt in my stomach years ago under Major (or possibly Thatcher) when they were discussing the handover of Hong Kong, and how they wanted to look at immigration rules so ‘top people’ (their words) could come here. Fuck everyone else.
And they specifically changed the rules on pet passports so Chris Patten could ship his dogs to and from Hong Kong (when governor there) without weeks of quarantine. They rate their own pets more important than people. Fuck their faces.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Steady on, wankbrain.
It wasn't a comment on the OP's unfortunate position, but on the likelihood of people being able to game the system. People have had to prove income for various reasons forever. Back in the day, to get a mortgage, a letter from an employer, often fraudulently obtained, was enough to get a bank to bung you the money. Nowadays it's not so simple. You need to pony-up P60s or accounts and if you can't, you don't get the loan. And that's just for a lender who doesn't have access to your officially declared finances. Here, you'd need to bullshit one government department into believing that you have income that another government department knows you don't (or would ask you to pay tax on because you haven't declared it).
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steeplejack
I'm Away Right Now
and?
Utterly vile from a cretinous shower of shit What jobs do they think these people do that earn less than that amount. You know just unimportant stuff like Care work, social work, nursing, et cetera et cetera. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a U-turn on forcing people to leave who are already here when their visas come up. But the venality has already been demonstrated, again.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
... you bum frogs.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
I believe it's meant to be 16k + 2.5 years of minimum salary, which gets you just under 3 years, and you need to meet the income/savings requirements again when you renew, and again when you apply for right to remain after 5 years. So you'd expect the savings requirement to be around 112k but it's still a huge amount, and I wouldn't put it past them to increase the 16k threshold.
Boudicca
Seaside Queen
Even if £38k is the average UK salary, is it the average salary of people planning to get married? Mostly young starting out in life people?
On the gaming the system issue, I do remember a group of Turkish students who had one pot of money which moved between their bank accounts depending on who needed to get their visa renewed. I guess it wouldn't be as simple as showing an account with £62k in your name these days.
On the gaming the system issue, I do remember a group of Turkish students who had one pot of money which moved between their bank accounts depending on who needed to get their visa renewed. I guess it wouldn't be as simple as showing an account with £62k in your name these days.
teqniq
DisMembered
This will probably not surprise anyone:
Home Office ignored official advice to lower salary needed for family visas
Home Office ignored official advice to lower salary needed for family visas
20Bees
Well-Known Member
It will hurt the wrong people.
My son went backpacking in 2011, loved China and has lived and worked there ever since, married his lovely Chinese wife in 2017 and had a son in 2021. They came over in August for a holiday, first time I met my grandson, and they decided they’d really like him to grow up here with his cousins (and a grandma). Pie in the sky.
My son went backpacking in 2011, loved China and has lived and worked there ever since, married his lovely Chinese wife in 2017 and had a son in 2021. They came over in August for a holiday, first time I met my grandson, and they decided they’d really like him to grow up here with his cousins (and a grandma). Pie in the sky.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The report says 70,000 Family Visas issued last year, it would be interesting to know how that breaks down i.e. how many are the spouses/families of immigrants who have come here to work in the NHS etc and how many are spouses/prospective spouses of British citizens (like the OP). I suspect that the balance is heavily weighted towards the first group so it will actually be more than 70,000 people since a lot of those visa will cover kids as well.
I was discussing this with Mrs Q last night (she thinks it's fucking dumb as well). She has a new girl started in her Y7 math class this year, her Mum came as a nurse, served her 2 years and applied to bring her husband and kids. Hubby found himself a job in Costco's who are so desperate for staff that providing you're breathing, you're in. Come next April, someone else in the same position will effectively loose that option and it will be serve your time and go home.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
They’re not going to continue this one. And no one cares now Sunak is in real trouble.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
“By increasing the requirement to more than double the national minimum wage, this government has effectively told people that only the wealthiest in society are allowed to fall in love with someone from another country.”
People aren’t taking this in. They’re not hearing that as an impact on them. They still think it’s not something that applies to British citizens.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
People are incredibly stupid. You must have noticed it by now. Look at all the brectums who didn't realise it would mean that their dream of retiring to Spain would be affected.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
How is it possible to read it as not applying to British citizens? It's not like the Tories have buried that info.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
See my post above. There are lots of idiots about. Far more than most people believe.
The government says that they will do something about immigration. One of the things they are doing is preventing low-earners from bringing their spouse over.
The picture in people's minds is that of an immigrant. Probably arriving on a boat. Who will not be able to bring their spouse over Yes, I know the government was talking about legal migrants, not asylum seekers. That's not the point.
Once you give up the silly idea that most people are capable of rational thought, a lot of what doesn't seem to make sense is crystal-clear. (I don't mean they were born that way. But use it or lose it, and after a few decades of laziness, they might as well have been.)
InArduisFouette
Active Member
the UK needs to re-address it's relationship with Nursing as a Profession
the RCN didn't help themselves with the ' we need a seperate payscale for Nurses ' shit , no duckie you need to use AfC job Banding propelry and realise that band 6 senior Staff Nurse should be a very common thing , jjust as band6 is now standard for Midwives with 2 years post reg experience, Pramedics with 2 years post reg experience and very few Physios or Ots are forced to stay in band 5 roles for more than a few years post reg.
when AfC came in in the mid 2000s a number of trusts ended up , after banding with Band 6 senior staff Nurses in the Emergency dept, Critical care and a few other areas such as Assessment units, Management response was to get rid of these roles rather than to accept that it;s possible to have both 'light blue' ( expert clinically ) and and 'navy blue' ( shift leader / runs the floor and the board) band 6 Nurses or that if necessary you pay a long term R+R supplement to the Navy Blue band 6 if they have more responsibility but donlt score enough to be a 7 ( some ambulance services have done this for roles such as team leader ort filed bsaded trainer/ assessors who were band 6 when paramedics were standard band 5)
InArduisFouette
Active Member
ironically the apprenticeship levy stuff has been a godsend in this regard
fewer and fewer none Medical HCPs ( i.e. not Doctors) will do their pre-reg as a traditional students, a lot of the NHS ambulance services have now pivoted back to an employee trainnee route using apprenticeship moneys ( and the end product Paramedic as well as being a more rounded clinican with better experience at the point of registration ) doesn;t have student debt (London and Yorkshire explcitly , West Mids, East Mids and NWAS it's a but more implicit, others i'm not so sure aobut or have gone back to recruiting straight to Tech and then havign tech to para pathway in service )
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