The Canary, views and discussion...

[Sasaferrato]

I'd be amused that you thought this was worth saying, except I'm mostly just slightly embarrassed on your behalf.

The Canary was a supposedly socialist venture? Except that some socialists were more equal than others? Rather like the Russian peasants swapping one set of entitled masters for another?

 

[LDC]

Lol, worker's revolution.

 

[killer b]

The Canary was a supposedly socialist venture? Except that some socialists were more equal than others? Rather like the Russian peasants swapping one set of entitled masters for another?

If you read the thread you'll see that literally everyone here had them pegged as con artists from day 1. They just happened to be con artists who preyed on leftwing people is all.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If you read the thread you'll see that literally everyone here had them pegged as con artists from day 1. They just happened to be con artists who preyed on leftwing people is all.

Ah. Ok. My bad.

Didn't read the previous 14 pages.

 

[Rob Ray]

The Canary was a supposedly socialist venture? Except that some socialists were more equal than others? Rather like the Russian peasants swapping one set of entitled masters for another?

Your inability to understand that socialists don't in fact consider other people on the left to be incapable of self serving behaviour is what's embarrassing. Saying "aha socialists can be dicks too" isn't a gotcha.

 

[Karl Masks]

The Canary was a supposedly socialist venture? Except that some socialists were more equal than others? Rather like the Russian peasants swapping one set of entitled masters for another?

Yes, Lenin and the Tsar were identical. Clown

 

[Rob Ray]

Wonder why you'd bother tbh. Put it out of it's misery and start again.

I actually sort of agree that a rebrand to underline the change might not be a bad shout, but I get the impression some of them have been building it for a while and feel attached to it.

 

[JimW]

We need communism because people are dicks; it's capitalism that can only work if people don't actually follow the underlying logic.

 

[teuchter]

Someone post a link to the first page of this thread in the comments to that youtube video and see what happens

 

[Sasaferrato]

Lol, worker's revolution.

We need one I think.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Your inability to understand that socialists don't in fact consider other people on the left to be incapable of self serving behaviour is what's embarrassing. Saying "aha socialists can be dicks too" isn't a gotcha.

Wasn't intended to be. Just remarking on the general venality of humanity.

 

[Rob Ray]

Not a fan of the nature over nurture argument either tbh but that's somewhat off topic.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yes, Lenin and the Tsar were identical. Clown

In what functional way did they differ? Please detail how the lot of the ordinary Russian improved post revolution.

BTW 'ad hom' is not an acceptable substitute for a reasoned argument.

 

[Karl Masks]

In what functional way did they differ? Please detail how the lot of the ordinary Russian improved post revolution.

BTW 'ad hom' is not an acceptable substitute for a reasoned argument.

One was a monarchy with peasants in famine. The other became an industrial powerhouse eventually, despite Stalin being a scumbag (for the record), beating the US into space.

Calling you a clown wasn't an adhominem, it was an insult.

 

[Sasaferrato]

We need communism because people are dicks; it's capitalism that can only work if people don't actually follow the underlying logic.

It doesn't seem to be working well in China at the moment. Well, one can can only go by press reports, but there seems to be a deal of unrest over Covid restrictions.

 

[Karl Masks]

It doesn't seem to be working well in China at the moment. Well, one can can only go by press reports, but there seems to be a deal of unrest over Covid restrictions.

Do you think China is in practice communist?

 

[JimW]

It doesn't seem to be working well in China at the moment. Well, one can can only go by press reports, but there seems to be a deal of unrest over Covid restrictions.

You can't call a country where some live as by-to-let landlords communist really

 

[JimW]

In other news, the DPRK isn't very democratic.

 

[Sasaferrato]

One was a monarchy with peasants in famine. The other became an industrial powerhouse eventually, despite Stalin being a scumbag (for the record), beating the US into space.

Calling you a clown wasn't an adhominem, it was an insult.

And you felt you had the right to insult me, why exactly?

An industrial powerhouse that couldn't feed its people? A society where basics like toilet paper were often unobtainable? A society where people queued for lengthy periods to buy bread? A society that enslaved its neighbours, sending in tanks to other nations to quell dissent? A rogue state from day one, and continues to be so.

 

[Rob Ray]

In what functional way did they differ?

This is a ridiculous question mainly because it shows a total lack of understanding of exactly how complicated and difficult to prove the answer is.

What eras are you comparing? Pre-war Tsarism vs post-recovery USSR? How do we factor in the arrival of the scientific acceleration that characterised the 20th century? How do we integrate the impact of the Cold War, Soviet welfare state and Iron Curtain? How far do we trust what stats?

 

[Sue]

You're on a roll today, Sasaferrato!

 

[Sasaferrato]

Do you think China is in practice communist?

Yes and no.

Yes in that it is a repressive society, no in that no declaredly communist country is.

North Korea has starving people, whilst its leader has gout and obesity.

 

[Sasaferrato]

This is a ridiculous question mainly because it shows a total lack of understanding of exactly how complicated and difficult to prove the answer is.

What eras are you comparing? Pre-war Tsarism vs post-recovery USSR? How do we factor in the arrival of the scientific acceleration that characterised the 20th century? How do we integrate the impact of the Cold War, Soviet welfare state and Iron Curtain? How far do we trust what stats?

That can be condensed into 'I don't know', and if you don't know, then you cannot say whether I am correct or not.

 

[Rob Ray]

That can be condensed into 'I don't know', and if you don't know, then you cannot say whether I am correct or not.

It can be condensed as "this is a very complicated subject that only a fool (ie. You) would confidently pontificate about."

 

[Karl Masks]

And you felt you had the right to insult me, why exactly?

An industrial powerhouse that couldn't feed its people? A society where basics like toilet paper were often unobtainable? A society where people queued for lengthy periods to buy bread? A society that enslaved its neighbours, sending in tanks to other nations to quell dissent? A rogue state from day one, and continues to be so.

Because you said something ridiculous in service to a very tired regressive trope

I'm also not an advocate for Stalin. The country went from famine under the Tsars to a successful revolution. What then followed Lenin's death was down to Stalin's ignorance.

Yes and no.

Yes in that is a repressive society, no in that no declaredly communist country is.

North Korea has starving people, whilst its leader has gout and obesity.

Communism isn't intrinsically repressive by any definition except bad faith. It's also anti state which means the existence of a Chinese state precludes it's arrival into communism

 

[tim]

Yes, Lenin and the Tsar were identical. Clown

They were both quite short. However, they shot the Tsar, but poisoned Lenin

 

[Sasaferrato]

In other news, the DPRK isn't very democratic.

Countries with 'Democratic' or 'People's' in their name tend to be a bit short on democracy.

 

[Rob Ray]

Countries with 'Democratic' or 'People's' in their name tend to be a bit short on democracy.

Jfc does your entire oeuvre consist of pseud bon mots?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Because you said something ridiculous in service to a very tired regressive trope

I'm also not an advocate for Stalin. The country went from famine under the Tsars to a successful revolution. What then followed Lenin's death was down to Stalin's ignorance.


Communism isn't intrinsically repressive by any definition except bad faith. It's also anti state which means the existence of a Chinese state precludes it's arrival into communism

Can you name one country that is truly communist in its function? One country where 'The Party' don't live an elevated lifestyle?

I don't think you can. Fascism and Communism are two sides of the same coin, the only difference is one is labelled 'Right' and the other 'Left'.

As to the USSR and its field of influence, have you seen the memorials near the Brandenburg Gate, to those shot dead by the Vopos for the heinous crime of trying to leave the worker's paradise?

You seem to be trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[JimW]

To keep the stale derail going, a good point I recall being made about the bread queues (or grain coupons as it was in China where I read it) was they were better than the previous situation when lots of people just got no chance of any at all.