The Ashes 2010/11

[littlebabyjesus]

I haven't seen the footage yet, but it seems to me that both Hughes and Bell knew they were wrong and were trying to pull fast ones.

It's nothing new, and neither is Botham's reaction. I remember him having a right go at the Pakistani wicketkeeper once for claiming a catch on the half-volley. I agree with him in this case, particularly where the offender plays for a side still officially captained by a man who wants to see the introduction of a 'take the fielder's word for it' code. But I also think what Bell did was just as bad. If the Australians and the umpire could tell he'd nicked it, he sure as hell will be able to tell, and more's the point, so should the man at the other end, Prior.

Technology failed and I feel sorry for Aleem Dar, who had little choice but to overturn his own correct decision. There might need to be a change in the way hotspot is used, to allow for the 'false negatives' problem kabbes highlighted – if it shows a nick, it's almost certainly right, but if it doesn't show a nick, it should not be used as evidence and it should go with umpire's decision (assuming the live shot can't show a gap between ball and bat).

 

[strung out]

but surely it just comes down to letting the odd guilty person off, to make sure that you don't 'condemn' any innocent batsmen. i'd rather be giving the batsman the benefit of the doubt, particularly when hotspot has got a very high level of accuracy compared to snickometer which firstly has to be frame matched to the footage, and even then doesn't prove that the sound necessarily came from bat hitting ball (although it is of course pretty likely)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sure Aleem Dar believes in giving the batsman the benefit of the doubt too. But he heard a noise, so there was no doubt in his mind. He was left in an impossible position – he couldn't overturn hotspot as if snicko had gone on to show no noise as he'd have looked inept.

Hotspot is a perfect example of the adage 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. It should be used accordingly.

 

[strung out]

well sure, it has to be beyond doubt, and if the hotspot shows nothing, then that should be sufficient doubt to rule the batsman not out. i don't see that there was a problem with the decision. obviously aleem dar heard a sound but there's no way of telling where that sound came from, which is why they use hotspot. hotspot showed the batsman to be not out (or at least puts sufficient doubt into play to rule not out)

 

[Idaho]

Yep, off you go. Even billy is telling you to leave.

How come half your posts contain these cryptic statements that are doubtless witty were anyone to understand what you are talking about?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The problem with the decision is that it was the wrong one! It shows that a good umpire can be a better judge than the available technology. It led to a correct decision being overturned.

 

[strung out]

how do you know it was the wrong one? hotspot showed nothing, and snickometer showed there was a sound (from somewhere) at the time he hit the ball. still enough doubt for me to rule it not out.

 

[paulhackett]

The problem with the decision is that it was the wrong one! It shows that a good umpire can be a better judge than the available technology. It led to a correct decision being overturned.

Both his decisions were correct at the time he made them.. I guess they need to develop snicko to produce data faster than it does?

how do you know it was the wrong one? hotspot showed nothing, and snickometer showed there was a sound (from somewhere) at the time he hit the ball. still enough doubt for me to rule it not out.

Do slips still click their fingers when the ball is passing a batsman or was that just a Surrey 'plan'. A bit Baldrick and not enough to show up on snicko..

 

[Santino]

I have heard cricketers say that you can't always tell if you've nicked one. If it did touch the bat, it wasn't enough to visibly deviate the ball so it must have been the faintest of edges.

 

[strung out]

Do slips still click their fingers when the ball is passing a batsman or was that just a Surrey 'plan'. A bit Baldrick and not enough to show up on snicko..

yep, that sounds like surrey alright

 

[Santino]

Re-starts at 11.00, remember.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Just seen this now, and I agree with the Aussie commentators. Dar should have stuck with his original decision. Bell definitely knew it was out, and it was shoddy to refer it.

But worst of all, hotspot did show a white spot. The third umpires need to be shown how to use the technology properly, ffs.

Spoils it for me, this kind of incident. Spoils the game.

 

[Santino]

I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.

 

[paulhackett]

I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.

Apparently he just has.. not announced it.. just more confirmation care of Mr Leaks

 

[embree]

Just seen this now, and I agree with the Aussie commentators. Dar should have stuck with his original decision. Bell definitely knew it was out, and it was shoddy to refer it.

But worst of all, hotspot did show a white spot. The third umpires need to be shown how to use the technology properly, ffs.

Spoils it for me, this kind of incident. Spoils the game.

Bullshit. Just seen it again and he was genuinely surprised to be given out.

Why are we assuming that Hotspot is wrong and snicko correct?

Seriously, it's perfectly possible to not know whether you've hit it or not. The conflicting evidence shows the edge, if it existed, was so fine it'd be easy for even the batsman to miss it. After he was given out, he looked surprised. When he was talking to Prior he looked surprised. Come on, we can't just assume that he 'knew', there's nothing to suggest he did and saying he did is unfair to a decent bloke.

 

[embree]

Apparently he just has.. not announced it.. just more confirmation care of Mr Leaks

yep, he's told the team he's retiring

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bullshit. Just seen it again and he was genuinely surprised to be given out.

Why are we assuming that Hotspot is wrong and snicko correct?

Hotspot wasn't wrong. It showed a very faint, very brief spot. The adjudicators haven't been taught how to use it properly.

Very very disappointing affair all round.

 

[Santino]

One day the technology will develop so far that there will be arguments about what level of molecular interaction constitutes a nick.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bollocks. Bell took an age to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If he doesn't, he'll be dropped for good anyway. Average 15 in the last 10 tests – it couldn't go on. He got out to an awful shot today, and at a time when England were still 60 behind. He is no longer a man for the pressure situation, I'm afraid.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Bollocks. Bell took an age to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.

Who's been bouncing balls in your book?!







Sorry

 

[Santino]

Bollocks. Bell took an age to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.

It is quite a bold claim to say that he thought he could fool people by asking for a review. If he knew he'd hit it he was also risking being made to look like a liar.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is quite a bold claim to say that he thought he could fool people by asking for a review. If he knew he'd hit it he was also risking being made to look like a liar.

Look like a liar, but playing well and on course for his first test hundred. Worth the risk? It took him about 10 seconds to decide 'yes' in the end.

 

[Santino]

It's easy to sit here hours after the event and try to work out what he was thinking in ten seconds in the middle of an Ashes Test match when he's been concentrating for hours on batting.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is easy, yes. And the answer is all too obvious.

 

[fen_boy]

Bollocks. Bell took an age to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them.

That just doesn't make any sense, I think you're wrong.

 

[embree]

Bollocks. Bell took an age to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.

rubbish. You can't assume that. They've been told to consider every referral carefully by Flower so that's what he did. Perfectly reasonable to ask your partner if he saw any deviation when you don't know you've hit it.

Stop being an arse, really

 

[embree]

England pass 500 for the fourth time in the series. Only the fifth time anyone's done that and first time for England

 

[Santino]

According to the Sky commentators, the first thing he said to Prior was 'I don't think I hit that' (or equivalent). Do you think he did that for the benefit of the cameras, having already worked out his intention to call for a review in the hope of deceiving the umpires by the time he'd walked a few feet?