The Ashes 2009
- Thread starter Santino
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It would depend on why you came here for me. If you came here because you couldn't get into the Auckland team, or whatever, that would leave a slightly bad taste for me. Pietersen and Trott both came here in order to further their cricket careers. If nothing else, it is an indictment of the system here that it isn't producing players to compete with them. The continued absence of players from an Asian background in the Yorkshire and Lancashire teams, for instance, is nothing short of scandalous. Why aren't their scouts scouring the Asian leagues in the north of England for talent? I cannot believe that the talent isn't there.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The truth is that England is the only test-playing country with a fully professional first class game. They've come here for the money they can make. That's the bottom line.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I don't care about 'British born', but 'learned their cricket in England' makes sense to me. That said, I have sympathy for what you say too – I wouldn't want to simply blanket-ban any immigrant, but South Africans are dominating county cricket at the moment one way or another and they haven't come here for the weather.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sounds like a very bad idea to everyone. If they play Trott, he should come in at three.
I've just looked at the Yorkshire squad, and they do now have three British Asians on their books. Sounds like they are finally getting the message, but a British Asian did not play for Yorkshire until 2004. What the fuck were they doing before then?
Hadn't heard of him, so had to look him up. Was he a west indian immigrant?
come to think of it, why have there been so few players for england at cricket of WI heritage, considering there've been a few of south asian descent now, and considering the huge number of black england footballers... Bit of a mystery to me, that
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Hadn't heard of Gordon Greenidge???? A magnificent opening batsman with flair, temperament and technique. He had everything, really. At his most dangerous when he was limping and would seek to score exclusively in boundaries.
He came here with his family as a teenager, was signed by Hampshire and had a bit of a miserable first year. The West Indies came and made him an offer, so he went to play for them. If his experience here had been more positive, and if the England cricket board had realised what a talent they were letting slip, he could easily have played for England.
Greenidge was a fantastic player. Gower declared too early against the West Indies in the 80s, leaving them to score about 350 in a day and Greenidge smashed over 200 not out in the blink of an eye!
Wonder where England are touring this winter? They've got some selection headaches as to who to take. Suspect this is why Ramprakash won't be picked for the last game as if he did well they'd be forced to pick him in the winter squad.
Wonder where England are touring this winter? They've got some selection headaches as to who to take. Suspect this is why Ramprakash won't be picked for the last game as if he did well they'd be forced to pick him in the winter squad.
I only have a fairly layperson's knowledge of cricket. I'm the typical person who only really follows it when it's the Ashes or Cricket World cup 
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, I remember that well. It made Gower look a bit silly, but then again, you didn't get the chance to beat the West Indies very often those days, and he did give his team their best chance of victory by leaving WI with a sniff themselves.
paulhackett
voiced by strother martin
Hadn't heard of Gordon Greenidge???? A magnificent opening batsman with flair, temperament and technique. He had everything, really. At his most dangerous when he was limping and would seek to score exclusively in boundaries.
He came here with his family as a teenager, was signed by Hampshire and had a bit of a miserable first year. The West Indies came and made him an offer, so he went to play for them. If his experience here had been more positive, and if the England cricket board had realised what a talent they were letting slip, he could easily have played for England.
I thought it took a while for him to be 'accepted' by the rest of the West Indian team after debut?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
S'ok, we're here to educate you.I only have a fairly layperson's knowledge of cricket. I'm the typical person who only really follows it when it's the Ashes or Cricket World cup
Suffice to say that Greenidge was one of the all-time great opening batsmen.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
It's truly bizarre if it's true. Bell fails at three, gets dropped, comes back at 4, fails, gets promoted to 3.
Wtf?
If they're playing Trott then he should be at number 3. Everybody knows this except for the selectors, apparently.
However, I have been convinced by the Ramps Camp. I think he should play this one test match, probably even at number 3. What the hell. We're not going to win unless we pull SOMETHING out of the bag. This is the Million-to-One Shot That Might Just Work.
However, I have been convinced by the Ramps Camp. I think he should play this one test match, probably even at number 3. What the hell. We're not going to win unless we pull SOMETHING out of the bag. This is the Million-to-One Shot That Might Just Work.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I hadn't heard that. The point for me is that he learned to play cricket in England. How good would it have been to have had Greenidge opening the batting for England?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I have a pretty simplistic attitude. You don't plan for the future, you pick your best team. Always. England seem to be constantly planning for the future. But sort out now and the future will sort itself out. That's what Australia do.
paulhackett
voiced by strother martin
I hadn't heard that. The point for me is that he learned to play cricket in England. How good would it have been to have had Greenidge opening the batting for England?
I can't find a linkable source for the 'problems' he may have had or how engrained they were, but they were certainly to do with his being 'english' though he came over from barbados when he was 14.
If he debuted for england instead of the west indies in 73/74, then he would have played with boycott, edrich and amiss.. carried on with gooch, made it through to atherton. Meanwhile we got greig, lamb, edmonds then the smith brothers, pringle, hick..
In some cases there is clearly a 50/50 choice, others such as the first australian test team where 5 or 6 born in the uk..? The aussies have been mercenary from the start
If Greenidge had of played for England he would have been rubbish. It's what the 3 Lions on shirt does to players.
According to Cric Info, they are gonna put Del Boy Trotter in at number five!!! A bit stupid really as we need a number 3!!! England has loads of batsman who would be good at number 5: Shah, Bopara, Bell, Colly etc. It's just a shuffle of the pack to be honest, no real change at all.
People bitch about Ramps coming in for just one test, but when Kev comes back in at number 4, who goes??? Will it be Trotsky??? I think it would, as Colly would move down again to 5 and they would prob keep Bell at 3, as Trott isn't a number 3. It's certainly baffling. They say Ramps is makeshift, Trotts will be too perhaps. He's the new Darren Pattinson.
Mind you, Trotters and Bellend will probably play out of their skins and win the Ashes. What do I know.
According to Cric Info, they are gonna put Del Boy Trotter in at number five!!! A bit stupid really as we need a number 3!!! England has loads of batsman who would be good at number 5: Shah, Bopara, Bell, Colly etc. It's just a shuffle of the pack to be honest, no real change at all.
People bitch about Ramps coming in for just one test, but when Kev comes back in at number 4, who goes??? Will it be Trotsky??? I think it would, as Colly would move down again to 5 and they would prob keep Bell at 3, as Trott isn't a number 3. It's certainly baffling. They say Ramps is makeshift, Trotts will be too perhaps. He's the new Darren Pattinson.
Mind you, Trotters and Bellend will probably play out of their skins and win the Ashes. What do I know.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Maybe. We'll never know. Certainly, he was lucky enough to play pretty much his entire career for the best team in the world. That can't hurt.
To answer the earlier question about the lack of black players now, I think it's partly because the sons of immigrants from the WI haven't inherited their parents' passion for the game in the same way as those with Pakistani or Indian parents have.
Yes, Boycott and Greenidge doesn't sound nearly as good as Haynes and Greenidge does it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No. Greenidge and Gooch has a nice alliteration to it though.
But tbh, I doubt going back to the West Indies is a decision he regrets.
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
are we on the same planet??You know when even though your team is getting a lesson in batting,you dont really mind because G.Greenidge is doing it
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That was kind of true about the whole WI team for me when I was growing up. I wanted to be a fast bowler when I was a kid and, of course, to play for England. But my bowling hero was Michael 'Whispering Death' Holding, not Bob Willis, although I'd shout 'come on Bob' as he steamed in as enthusiastically as everyone else. (Although it was Richard Hadlee who I actually tried to copy, style-wise.) And when I went to watch Somerset play, it was Joel Garner I wanted to get to. And Viv, of course.
No matter how good Australia were in the 90s, I doubt I'd have grown up idolising Glenn McGrath. That said, that's what I like about cricket – no matter what team you support, you can have heroes from anywhere.
That was kind of true about the whole WI team for me when I was growing up. I wanted to be a fast bowler when I was a kid and, of course, to play for England. But my bowling hero was Michael 'Whispering Death' Holding, not Bob Willis, although I'd shout 'come on Bob' as he steamed in as enthusiastically as everyone else. (Although it was Richard Hadlee who I actually tried to copy, style-wise.) And when I went to watch Somerset play, it was Joel Garner I wanted to get to. And Viv, of course.
No matter how good Australia were in the 90s, I doubt I'd have grown up idolising Glenn McGrath. That said, that's what I like about cricket – no matter what team you support, you can have heroes from anywhere.
First test I went to, aged 6 or so, was seeing the windies. Greenidge and Haynes opening. Richards at 3 or 4. Awesome. And how fucking cool were Gordon's glasses?
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
First test I went to, aged 6 or so, was seeing the windies. Greenidge and Haynes opening. Richards at 3 or 4. Awesome. And how fucking cool were Gordon's glasses?
that pair as openers,followed by Richards,Gomes,Dujon and Lloyd were a pretty handy batting lineup.Marshall,Garner, Baptiste,Holding and? as bowlers.What a side to watch.
eta as lbj stated,this game is for any boy to model themselves on the best players from any team.I always wanted to be Wes Hall.
Perhaps time to resurrect this thread in good time before 11.00 on Thursday morning.
Having watched almost every ball of the previous three tests in the series I took my kids to France during the Headingly debacle (luckily). Still managed to keep myself updated of the carnage via world service and TMS though
Reaction to the defeat hasnt been poistive - oh how the aussies must be pissing themselves behind closed doors.
It was typical of the mindset in English cricket for some jouno's, former players and perhaps selectors to have seriously considered bringing back Tresco and/or Ramps. Its equally typical and unfortunate that there are no genuine talented and youthful contenders for the batting line up than (yet) another South African.
I'm not sure what 'i'd' have done. My opinion isnt important at all (perhaps bought in Key) but the media circus generated by one defeat - albeit a savage one - is a joke.
What worries me more is how we are gonna take 20 wkts?
It strikes me that if Australia win the toss then Englands hopes die.
There's talk in the media of bringing in two spinners. Not sure if the pitch will turn THAT much. If so, who to discard?
I didnt see Harmy bowl but judging from newspaper articles and posts on here he (once again) failed to deliver. Shame but I think I've even lost patience with him.
FWIW Freddie has to play - even if 10% fit, on crutches and attached to a saline drip. Bell at 3 scares the hell out of me. Promoting Colly to four and inserting Trott at five appears to make no sense. Dropping Onions would be barmy.
Having watched almost every ball of the previous three tests in the series I took my kids to France during the Headingly debacle (luckily). Still managed to keep myself updated of the carnage via world service and TMS though
Reaction to the defeat hasnt been poistive - oh how the aussies must be pissing themselves behind closed doors.
It was typical of the mindset in English cricket for some jouno's, former players and perhaps selectors to have seriously considered bringing back Tresco and/or Ramps. Its equally typical and unfortunate that there are no genuine talented and youthful contenders for the batting line up than (yet) another South African.
I'm not sure what 'i'd' have done. My opinion isnt important at all (perhaps bought in Key) but the media circus generated by one defeat - albeit a savage one - is a joke.
What worries me more is how we are gonna take 20 wkts?
It strikes me that if Australia win the toss then Englands hopes die.
There's talk in the media of bringing in two spinners. Not sure if the pitch will turn THAT much. If so, who to discard?
I didnt see Harmy bowl but judging from newspaper articles and posts on here he (once again) failed to deliver. Shame but I think I've even lost patience with him.
FWIW Freddie has to play - even if 10% fit, on crutches and attached to a saline drip. Bell at 3 scares the hell out of me. Promoting Colly to four and inserting Trott at five appears to make no sense. Dropping Onions would be barmy.
