The Ashes 2009
- Thread starter Santino
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I was talking about his first class record as compared to Ramps, not coming back for England. Yesterday he said he could be persuaded back anyway (he won't be though).
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
Because he's been picked before and was predominantly useless?
Because he's 170 years old?
This is not a forward thinking choice, imo.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Argh, i wasn't saying that it was though, i was saying that he had a chance of bettering it, as BM said it was unlikely to ever be bettered. If he carries on this season he'll have matched ramps first great domestic season with plenty of time ahead of him (in fact he's got another season that matched him as well.)
Put him in and he's arguably under less pressure than most to be fair. Folks have already written him off in the past, he's at his home ground and against familiar opponents.
Who else would be under less pressure. And at least his upside and mental approach is a known quantity. Throwing a new boy into this arena seems more fraught with difficulty.
Who else would be under less pressure. And at least his upside and mental approach is a known quantity. Throwing a new boy into this arena seems more fraught with difficulty.
I don't think Ramps would have that kind of pressure this time. He wouldn't be playing for the sake of his England career. That ship has long since sailed. He'd just be playing a single match. He might even enjoy it.
Butchers, I understand what you are saying now. But Tresco would have to sustain it for a number of years for it to "beat Ramps", I'd say.
Butchers, I understand what you are saying now. But Tresco would have to sustain it for a number of years for it to "beat Ramps", I'd say.
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
You mean like recalling a Hayden, a Langer or a Martyn? Or debuting a Hussey or a North.. that's a lot of young talent you blood..
Yes as they(Hayden,Langer and Martyn) were all proven performers who worked hard to regain test spots.Working hard in domestic cricket here is a bit above county cricket there i would imagine.It took Hussey and North that long to get a baggy green.But they kept at it until they were picked.Also they kept them thru top scores
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
No, but it does suggest to me that we've learned nothing whatsoever from all those wilderness years when mugs like Ramps were the "backbone" of the England test team.
Great in the CC does not equal great in tests.
Still, it'll be a laugh when he gets 4 runs.
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
The Aussie media (and the players) will take the piss whoever is selected. If it's someone young there'll be a deluge of crap about how Cricket isn't a game for little boys. If it's Trott he'll be a Saffer interloper.
TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
Exactly. So the lesson learnt here is: Don't take notice of the aussie media. Mind you, i've been doing that all series.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Hmm possibly, Ramps plays on a good batting wicket and so does Tresco, Tresco's one advantage being Somerset's ground is probably the smallest county ground in the country.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
There's a fair bit of competition for those places.
Trott is 115*
Bell is 90*
Rashid made 114*
Rob Key 90
Trott is 115*
Bell is 90*
Rashid made 114*
Rob Key 90
paulhackett
voiced by strother martin
bopara out, bell at 3, trott at 4.. flintoff in for onions (likely) according to david hopps
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/14/jonathan-trott-ashes-debut-oval-test
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/14/jonathan-trott-ashes-debut-oval-test
Madness. Bell at first drop is a free wicket and Flintoff should be coming in for Harmison.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'd have gone for Key, I think. Bell at three is an odd decision – a one-off from Ramps would have been better, but then I'd have recalled him two years ago – and Onions missing out to Harmison is a triumph of hope over experience, I fear. Otherwise, well done selectors. 
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
Bringing Key in is probably the change that would make most sense, an older, experienced player who, although not massively successful at test level, is seemingly a very level headed figure and also has had some success as a captain so thereby giving Strauss a figure to turn to and natter with about tactics in what is quite a young side.
I'm not utterly convinced by it, but that makes most sense to me. I'm emphatically against bringing in Ramprakash for a game. Key could still have 5 years or so of test level cricket in him if he did succeed.
I'd drop Bell and move Bopara to 4. Onions must play, Flintoff returns for Fred. People who are saying 'play Rashid' are way off the mark
Trott, well, dunno, meh. Can't get excited about him, flat track bully from what I read, could be wrong of course.
I'm not utterly convinced by it, but that makes most sense to me. I'm emphatically against bringing in Ramprakash for a game. Key could still have 5 years or so of test level cricket in him if he did succeed.
I'd drop Bell and move Bopara to 4. Onions must play, Flintoff returns for Fred. People who are saying 'play Rashid' are way off the mark
Trott, well, dunno, meh. Can't get excited about him, flat track bully from what I read, could be wrong of course.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
if harmy stays instead of onions then i officially give up on england
Why is Ramps only beng talked about for a one off test??? He could easily tour to South Africa and have a couple of years back in the side. Gooch and Stewart were over 40 when they stopped playing test cricket. It's a shame Trott is a South African, even though England have relied on them in the past, it just takes a bit of English flavour away from the side. And why won't they use Sidebottom???
liquidlunch
fargonebeauty
every sports writer here has given Onions a big tick.He has impressed us no end and if he gets dropped to let Harmison in then England DESERVE to lose.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think they made their decision with Ramps two years ago – no way back. He's been the best player in the country for at least three seasons, but England don't seem to like repicking batsmen who've been discarded. Silly really, when you look at the success of Australians coming back after lengthy breaks to excel in their thirties – Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Lehman, Katich. The Australians definitely have a different attitude, and I think they would have picked Ramprakash two years ago.
I think it's a big shame Trott is a South African. He's come here as something of a mercenary, as Pietersen did. He isn't British and he didn't learn his cricket in the British system. I, for one, don't want him or Pietersen or anyone else who hasn't risen through the system here.
How about Strauss? Where's the line you draw? Flyin quite close to xenophobia there...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I draw a very clear line along the system through which you have risen. Strauss came here as a child. As did Prior. Devon Malcolm came here aged 16, but had never played cricket before and learned it here. It's a very clear line for me – Trott and Pietersen both came to England as adults in order to further their cricket careers when there was a perfectly good team for them to try to get into in their own country. There's nothing xenophobic about that – otherwise, you might as well discard any qualification requirements and simply let all teams pick anyone as if they were clubs.
The one that got away, of course, was Gordon Greenidge. If England had been a little less of a racist place in the 1970s, he could and should have played for England.
Hmm.. so, hypothetically, I, for instance, wouldn't be able to play for England under your proposed system? Despite living in the UK for ten years, loving the place, having English grandparents and having no allegiance whatsoever to the country I was born in?
Pietersen has repeatedly said that he thinks of England as his home, and I reckon hes being honest there. Don't know anything about Trott mind you...
