Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Spanish Political News

Lived in Spain for going on 4 years and I think it's bollocks. Heard very little about jews generally, in Andalucía, aside from historical stuff. Some muppet did once claim there was no Jewish area in Seville, even tho it's called la judería.

The left everywhere has antisemitism from some. And general society too. Spanish people can be quite blunt and bigoted about other cultures but the racism is more ignorant and less agressive and hate filled than places like the UK or France. Imo.
 
Iglesias' giving a massively spiky interview slagging off IU.

You seem to have messed up the link.

There was an interesting interview with Iglesias, conducted by Público and some Catalan publication called Crític, before his recent unproductive meeting with Alberto Garzón of IU. It is here: http://www.publico.es/politica/iglesias-quiero-ganar-dejen-paz.html

He is, no doubt deliberately, very rude about IU, with whom he doesn't want to make an electoral alliance. In a nutshell, he says they are a pointless bunch of lefties, content with losing, unable to read the political situation, wallowing in their pessimism, purity and superiority over the stupid Spanish plebs who keep voting for the wrong parties. Though ruder about his ex-comrades than he's been before, the content (insults aside) is very much of a piece with his previous remarks about (i) how crap the left is at communicating with the people, (ii) Podemos' ambitions - ie, he wants to win and (iii) the need for the new politics to appeal to people across the board, instead of just to the existing minority of lefties.

Inevitably, IU has answered back, albeit not very convincingly. Madrid IU (or part of what's left of it) says Iglesias is politically corrupt, stupid, a liar and [sharp intake of breath] anti-communist. http://www.publico.es/politica/iucm-madrid-responde-iglesias-tonto.html
 
You seem to have messed up the link.

There was an interesting interview with Iglesias, conducted by Público and some Catalan publication called Crític, before his recent unproductive meeting with Alberto Garzón of IU. It is here: http://www.publico.es/politica/iglesias-quiero-ganar-dejen-paz.html

He is, no doubt deliberately, very rude about IU, with whom he doesn't want to make an electoral alliance. In a nutshell, he says they are a pointless bunch of lefties, content with losing, unable to read the political situation, wallowing in their pessimism, purity and superiority over the stupid Spanish plebs who keep voting for the wrong parties. Though ruder about his ex-comrades than he's been before, the content (insults aside) is very much of a piece with his previous remarks about (i) how crap the left is at communicating with the people, (ii) Podemos' ambitions - ie, he wants to win and (iii) the need for the new politics to appeal to people across the board, instead of just to the existing minority of lefties.

Inevitably, IU has answered back, albeit not very convincingly. Madrid IU (or part of what's left of it) says Iglesias is politically corrupt, stupid, a liar and [sharp intake of breath] anti-communist. http://www.publico.es/politica/iucm-madrid-responde-iglesias-tonto.html

What do you think?
 
What do you think?

I like Iglesias and I admire his skills. I agree particularly with (i) his criticisms of the left, which used to be expressed in a more comradely manner, and (ii) everything he says about the need to remake the constitution and Spain's unresolved national questions.

(On that second point: it is very rare for me to want to cheer when listening to any politician, but when I listen to Iglesias speaking about the Catalan, Basque etc national questions, I think he is absolutely spot on. He is not pro-separatist and, despite what some liars have said, he is not pro-terrorist - & also his distance from Bildu is wise - but he insists that people have the right to decide democratically and that in any serious process to sort out these questions, other constitutional questions, including the monarchy and the electoral system have to be discussed.)

I'm not very taken by the notion of 'the Caste'. I don't really think it's accurate, but I don't care too much. It's been a way of talking about the establishment and I'm not surprised to find that Iglesias can be very flexible in his use of the term.

There are, as Iglesias and chums of course know very well, two other crucially important questions. One is unemployment and related problems of poverty. The other is corruption, the reaction to which has given both Podemos and Cuidadanos their opportunity. These are not just the questions that I happen to think matter most. They are what opinion polls tell us matter most to Spaniards.

Between now and the general election in November, Podemos' chances of participating in the next government will be determined by how convincing they are on these questions and obviously that will depend on a number of things. These include: how credible their proposals are for the general election (this is crucial and we don't yet know what they'll be), how well the victorious alliances, which include Podemos, in local government in Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia manage those cities and ameliorate the problems, how events in Greece play out...

Podemos is interesting and it is right to aim to address the questions that matter to the population as a whole. It is different from the IUers who want to plug on in the same old way. It is a world away from assorted doctrinaire Marxists and Anarcho-twaddle cathedral-bombers. It has had some remarkable successes, but it could all still come to nothing.
 
Last edited:
Sadly, Podemos and especially Pablo Iglesias seem to have adopted some of the worst sectarian stances of the IU leadership. Although, I am not too surprised. I admire many rank and file activists, but I have never really warmed to Pablo Iglesias and it is not the first time he has thrown cold water over a popular front. If the Podemos leadership (so much for being different to other parties) think they can do better alone they are mistaken, especially in places like Andalucia where the PSOE are top dog and IU still have a fairly strong presence and haven't totally collapsed . If they are serious about winning and taking over over the PSOE here their only chance doing this is through working with other parties such as IU rather than competing against them. They have made alliances in places like Catalonia, Valencia and Galicia successfully and I think in Andalucia it's a must especially due to it having such a large population.
 
Iglesias and other leaders of Podemos had to talk about relations with other groups. What they said was directed mainly at their own members. Of course they'd prefer to talk about other stuff, but Iglesias and chums have put themselves in an odd situation and have to try to defend it in order to keep their own supporters from siding with their critics.

Oddities about the leadership position:

1. For the local elections the Podemos brand cound not be used. Instead Podemites could only participate as part of wider alliances like Ahora Madrid and Barcelona en Comú. For the coming general election, on the other hand, such alliances are rejected and Podemos will go to the polls under its own colours. These two contrasting positions were both insisted upon by Iglesias and chums.

2. Though broader lefty alliances are forcefully, even insultingly, rejected by Iglesias and chums for the general election, this is only, well, in general. They are not rejected everywhere. Catalonia will be an exception. Valencia will be another and Galicia another. Also Navarra?

Consistency is not a strong point. What a mess!

It was a mess even before a fairly definite alternative was proposed, but now that a varied bunch of lefties - including some in Podemos, some in IU, others in other factions - have proposed Ahora en Común, an alliance like the ones that have gained municipal power in Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Zaragoza, Iglesias and chums have to say something to justify their rejection of the proposal.

What they've said includes a certain amount of definite bollocks. Iglesias' brave-sounding insistence that he would not give in to blackmail was a prize bit of bullshit. Nobody's blackmailing him. The stuff about being asked to dissolve (was that Iglesias or Monedero or another? I can't remember and can't be bothered to look it up) is equally bollocks.

There is another part which may be sincere, though. Basically, Iglesias' position is that it is Podemos that attracts the votes and that a lash-up with IU would bring few votes and might repel more. Is there some truth in it? There seem to me to be three parts to it.

1. Did Ahora Madrid etc do well just because of their association with Podemos or for other reasons too? In the last week or so of the election campaign the very nice polite young men and women who were giving out leaflets outside many Metro stations felt it was very important that we all understood that Ahora Madrid was Podemos. On one side of the leaflet was Podemos for the Comunidad de Madrid elections and on the other side Ahora Madrid for the council. The leafleters didn't waste time talking of alliances. They just said Ahora Madrid is Podemos. Clearly they believed that Podemos was the brand that attracted the votes. However, having seen the TV debate between Carmena and Aguirre and having heard what a variety of people think of Carmena, I think she was an important asset to the campaign. She's not in Podemos, Ganemos, Equo, Convocatoria por Madrid or any other faction. She is very much her own woman. It is said that it was Iglesias' idea to talk her into being the candidate for mayor. If it was, he got that right. Similarly, I guess Ada Callau was an important asset in Barcelona.

2. It may be true that IU is now very low in the polls because their supporters have already switched to Podemos, but some IU pols (eg, Garzón among the young ones and Anguita among the oldies) may have some influence over precisely that section of the electorate that a few years ago said it was going to vote IU and now says it's going to vote for Podemos. Also, of course, the proposal is not just a lash-up with IU, but a wider alliance and some people, it seems, quite like the idea of alliances of people coming together to oust the establishment parties. Would it really be harmful not to have the Podemos brand on the ballot paper? Ahora en Común would have quite a lot of recognition and those polite young people will still be available to tell us all it's Podemos really.

3. Last but not least, would an alliance with groups that define themselves as left-wing harm the prospects of Podemos winning by presenting itself as a party for people across the board (transversal is the term they like) rather than being seen as another incarnation of the left? Podemos could probably only ever attract a very small number of right-wing votes. (Anyone who is interested enough to find out about Iglesias and chums can see that the party was set up by and is led by a bunch of Commies and Trots.) The aspiration is to attract lots of people who are not dyed-in-the-wool right-wingers but also do not think of themselves as left-wing either and do not speak Leftese. There are lots of people like that, I think. They are going to decide how well Podemos does in the general election. On the little evidence we have from the local elections they weren't too bothered by alliances with assorted ex-commies with a variety of weird political histories. My guess is that the single most important factor in deciding if Podemos, or a Podemite alliance, is involved one way or another in forming the next government is not its choice of partners before the election but its choice of policies on the two big issues: jobs and corruption. If Podemos doesn't come up with a credible job-generating plan, support may drift back to PSOE, who undoubtedly will have something thought-out, however inadequate, to propose.
 
FT interview with Manuela Carmena. Madrid already feels like a better place with her around.


manuela.jpg



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e5cdaec2-262d-11e5-bd83-71cb60e8f08c.html#axzz3gA5FNHPI

The people of Madrid have discovered a simple way of getting in touch with their mayor. All they have to do is join the early morning rush of commuters at Arturo Soria metro station in the northern suburbs, and take line four into the city.

“People told me it would be impossible to go on using public transport every day,” Manuela Carmena, the 71-year-old retired judge who now governs Spain’s largest city, says in an interview. “But in truth people have been very reasonable. They greet me, or ask a question. Some want to take a photograph. But they always treat me with respect.”


Ms Carmena’s early morning metro journeys have been held up as a small but telling symbol of the broader changes she is hoping to bring to the Spanish capital. For more than two decades, Madrid’s imposing town hall was in the hands of the conservative Popular party. In May, however, Ms Carmena led an alliance of leftist groups, including the anti-austerity Podemos party, to a surprise victory at the polls.

Despite her age, she won overwhelming support from younger voters. Her friendly manner and no-nonsense style went down well with middle-class Madrileños who otherwise have little in common with Podemos.

Her triumph marked the biggest breakthrough yet for Spain’s new left, and a stinging rebuke for the country’s established parties and politicians. With a general election looming this year, pundits and voters alike are wondering whether Ms Carmena — along with a new batch of leftwing mayors in Barcelona, Zaragoza, Cadiz and other cities — will form the vanguard of more profound political upheaval.

“I believe that we can provide a model for change,” she says. “I want to prove that we can manage Madrid in a different way.”

Ms Carmena has promised to pursue what she calls “the politics of the small”, ending the habitual Madrid craze for grand and costly projects.

“I have a real aversion to big words and big projects. I want to do small things, concrete things, and things that are efficient. I don’t want to have anything to do with grand ideas and grand dimensions — and that includes the Olympics,” says Ms Carmena. Under her predecessors, Madrid had tried — and failed — to host the summer games three times in a row. Her main concern, she adds, is to put the city’s €5bn budget and 30,000 staff at the disposal of the capital’s underprivileged. Housing shortages and the struggle to prevent house evictions are key priorities — and have dominated Ms Carmena’s first round of meetings with the heads of Banco Santander, BBVA and Bankia, all of which have their headquarters in and around the capital. The first fruit of those talks is a new office in the Madrid town hall that will try to find solutions for homeowners threatened by evictions. Ms Carmena is also hoping to persuade banks to make available vacant apartments in their portfolios for social housing.

Whatever political skirmishes await her, Ms Carmena is used to far graver battles. In the 1960s and 1970s, she was a member of the banned Communist party that led opposition against the Franco dictatorship.
A lawyer by training, she dedicated much of her early career to the struggle for democracy in Spain. In 1977, two years after Franco’s death, her law practice was attacked by far-right gunmen, who killed five of her colleagues in one of the bloodiest incidents of the Spanish transition.
Her background helps explain another of her early moves in office — renaming all the Madrid streets and squares that still honour members of the Franco regime, or the dictator himself. “I decided to stand as a candidate out of a personal commitment to democracy, nothing more. I wanted to help get Spanish democracy out of the impasse it was in,” she says. “I didn’t do it because I wanted political power. I never liked power and I don’t like it now.”
In her first weeks as mayor, Ms Carmena has abolished many of the perks and privileges that traditionally surround high political office in Spain. Her loyalty to the Madrid metro aside, she has slashed her salary, and handed back the municipality’s boxes in the Teatro Real opera house and the Las Ventas bullfighting arena.


Ms Carmena’s friendly manner and no-nonsense style went down well with Madrileños
“When one of us wants to go to the opera, he or she will have to do what every other citizen also does: go to the box office and buy a ticket,” she explains. Neither will she accept invitations to the prized Palco at Real Madrid’s Bernabéu stadium, the executive box where Spain’s political and business elite comes to network (and watch football). “Real Madrid has not invited us yet, but if they invite us we won’t go,” says Ms Carmena.
As much as she dislikes the traditional closeness between Madrid’s politicians and businessmen, the new mayor insists that companies and investors have nothing to fear from her administration. In the long run, they too will benefit from a town hall that is “efficient and clean”, she says.
“We are not an expression of the radical left. In any case, I am not,” says Ms Carmena. “But we will be radical in the fight against corruption, in creating a class of politicians without privilege, and in communicating with the citizens. We want to be social and show solidarity. And I think business can fit very well into these lines.”
 
There is a new poll. According to Simple Lógica, the state of support for the main parties is:

PP 26.2% (+2.4)
PSOE 23.1% (+3.7)
Ciudadanos 18.4% (+1.1)
Podemos 14.9% (-8.4)
IU 5.4% (+1.3)


I came across these figures on Twitter. They were accompanied by a terse assessment (which of course does not come from the pollster): "Tsipras destroys Podemos."

The graphic below is from Simple Lógica. They don't seem to have a track record of underestimating Podemos' support.

15010_2.gif


Polling organisations here often differ significantly in their conclusions and in the adjustments they make to their raw data. Often new polls are presented on Saturday nights on La Sexta Noche. Maybe they'll have another (different) one tonight.

Nevertheless, I do think it is at least plausible that a fair few Spaniards have looked at what's happened to poor old Greece and have decided they don't want a government like Syriza.
 
Barcelona council removes bust of former king of Spain from city hall
Guardian 24 July 2015
The empty space, roughly the size of a cereal box, is barely noticeable amid the rich decor of Barcelona city hall’s main chamber.

But this small area has become a focal point across Spain after the newly elected leftist government in the city took down the bronze bust of former king Juan Carlos, just hours after his son, King Felipe VI, weighed in on Catalan independence.

The bust was removed as part of a review of royalist symbols in Barcelona’s municipal buildings and across the city, said Gerardo Pisarello, Barcelona’s deputy mayor. “The monarchy is over-represented in terms of iconography and symbols in the municipal buildings and in the city,” he said. “Barcelona has a longstanding tradition of republicanism that hasn’t been sufficiently recognised.”
How likely is Catalan independence in the near future?
 
There is a new poll. According to Simple Lógica, the state of support for the main parties is:

PP 26.2% (+2.4)
PSOE 23.1% (+3.7)
Ciudadanos 18.4% (+1.1)
Podemos 14.9% (-8.4)
IU 5.4% (+1.3)


I came across these figures on Twitter. They were accompanied by a terse assessment (which of course does not come from the pollster): "Tsipras destroys Podemos."

The graphic below is from Simple Lógica. They don't seem to have a track record of underestimating Podemos' support.

15010_2.gif


Polling organisations here often differ significantly in their conclusions and in the adjustments they make to their raw data. Often new polls are presented on Saturday nights on La Sexta Noche. Maybe they'll have another (different) one tonight.

Nevertheless, I do think it is at least plausible that a fair few Spaniards have looked at what's happened to poor old Greece and have decided they don't want a government like Syriza.
The Tispras capitulation would seem to be a huge challenge for Podemos, and one that adversaries will exploit to undermine their central strategy. Though it is also important to acknowledge the electoral damage that has been done to Podemos by the emergence and growth of their liberal, centre-right rivals Ciudadanos. Since the beginning of the year the polling fortunes of Podemos and Ciudadanos appear pretty much as a mirror image of each other, (as shown in your graph).

In his recent NLR Q&A interview Iglesias admits that the encouragement and emergence of Ciudadanos from the liberal establishment has been a clever counter-response to the rapid rise of Podemos over the last year.
Clearly the adversary plays a role and the terms of the confrontation have been changing. It’s true that the media terrain is much less comfortable for us now. Building up Ciudadanos was a smart move for them, not so much because it is taking votes from Podemos directly but because, at the level of discourse, it’s challenging our position as the option for regeneration and our place in the media. Now there is another party of ‘change’, which has very different features; Ciudadanos essentially emerged from the liberal establishment. So, yes, we are in the process of reformulating the Podemos hypothesis.
Our key objective was always to occupy the centrality of the political field, taking advantage of the incipient organic crisis. This has nothing to do with the political ‘centre’ of bourgeois discourse. Our challenge, in Gramscian terms, in this war of position was to create a new common sense that would allow us to occupy a transversal position, at the heart of the newly reformulated political spectrum. Right now, the political space that was up for grabs has been reduced as a result of these counter-moves by the establishment, including the promotion of Ciudadanos. So our task has become more difficult; it requires a new strategic intelligence. Also, these interventions by the adversary have created further contradictions within our field. We are facing three immediate difficulties.
 
A poll by GAD3, that came out just a couple of days after the Simple Lógica one, has more or less the same figure for Podemos, 15%, but doesn't corroborate the figure Simple Lógica had for Ciudadanos. GAD3 has a significantly lower figure for Ciudadanos, about 12%.

GAD3 19/07/15 (figures in brackets are projections of number of seats in Congress):

PP 29.1% (131)
PSOE 25.5% (106)
Podemos 15% (41)
C’s 12.1% (31)

http://electomania.es/gad3-el-pp-resiste-y-el-psoe-se-recupera-a-costa-de-podemos/

The Tispras capitulation would seem to be a huge challenge for Podemos, and one that adversaries will exploit to undermine their central strategy. Though it is also important to acknowledge the electoral damage that has been done to Podemos by the emergence and growth of their liberal, centre-right rivals Ciudadanos. Since the beginning of the year the polling fortunes of Podemos and Ciudadanos appear pretty much as a mirror image of each other, (as shown in your graph).

In his recent NLR Q&A interview Iglesias admits that the encouragement and emergence of Ciudadanos from the liberal establishment has been a clever counter-response to the rapid rise of Podemos over the last year.

I think that part of the graph from Simple Lógica appears to show that sort of mirror relationship. I mean the first few months of this year. I don't see that relationship from April onwards.

Anyway, sure, it's plausible that Cs took support from Podemos. It's clear that Podemos supporters and Cs supporters are alike in some of their concerns. Both parties speak for people who are fed up with the corruption of the established parties. Cs are a pro-market party, but they insist they are not dogmatic. They will support whatever works best and they don't rule out doing deals with any other party. It also helps that they have a popular attractive party leader to express these ideas.
 
it's not over yet and even a 15pc vote for podemos puts them in a decent position. certainly not grim.

why is everyone so short term?

we need a new left, not in november, but over the next 100 years. syriza and podemos are the first tentative steps and the progress wont be linear.
 
Polling organisations here differ quite a lot in their conclusions and in how they do things. Metroscopia's latest poll is published in today's El País and the results are significantly different from Simple Lógica's and GAD3's last week.

PSOE 23.5
PP 23.1
Podemos 18.1
Ciudadanos 16.0
IU 5.6


One of the things I find interesting about Metroscopia's results is in the part about who people would not vote for under any circumstances. Of course there's lots of unsurprising stuff there, but there is an interesting contrast between Podemos supporters and Ciudadanos supporters. 71% of Ciudadanos supporters say they would never vote for Podemos, while only 17% of Podemos voters say they would never vote for Ciudadanos.
 
but there is an interesting contrast between Podemos supporters and Ciudadanos supporters. 71% of Ciudadanos supporters say they would never vote for Podemos, while only 17% of Podemos voters say they would never vote for Ciudadanos.

Very interesting but not surprising. I think there are plenty of people out there who like Podemos but feel they're "extreme". It's just that right now they're content to go with a more radical option in the current circumstances. Ciudadanos wear nice button up shirts and won't change too much of the status quo. We've seen the fluctuations in Podemos's vote share in the past few months. I think they'll really get the squeeze put on them from all sides at election time and they need some good luck (a scandal breaking late-October for example) to carry them to a decent result. Otherwise, I think they're looking at third place. Which is still amazing for an 18 month old party.
 
Polling organisations here differ quite a lot in their conclusions and in how they do things. Metroscopia's latest poll is published in today's El País and the results are significantly different from Simple Lógica's and GAD3's last week.

PSOE 23.5
PP 23.1
Podemos 18.1
Ciudadanos 16.0
IU 5.6

Looking at the results of this poll if Podemos are serious about <<winning>> the election and not crticising from the sidelines a trait they have criticised the old left for, I think some form of coalition will be needed with IU. Is Pablo Iglesias willing to reduce his protaganism?
 
Looking at the results of this poll if Podemos are serious about <<winning>> the election and not crticising from the sidelines a trait they have criticised the old left for, I think some form of coalition will be needed with IU. Is Pablo Iglesias willing to reduce his protaganism?

Teaming up with IU ruins the message of Podemos being a party that does politics in a different way. Why take 5% of votes and undo the message of everything you've said to date. They should steer well clear.
 
Teaming up with IU ruins the message of Podemos being a party that does politics in a different way. Why take 5% of votes and undo the message of everything you've said to date. They should steer well clear.

I'm not so sure. I think Podemos now has got it's core vote as most the floating voters who were sick of PPSOE but who didn't identify themselves as left-wing or don't want any radical economic change would have now went to Cs
 
How likely is Catalan independence in the near future?

I don't know the answer to your question, but it's clear that the chances of UDI will be determined by the outcome of the Catalan elections in September. If the pro-independence bloc put together by Artur Mas does not win, the risk of UDI in the near future drops very low. However, even if that happens, the Catalan national question is not going to disappear for a long time.

I hope that after the general election in November Spain will have a government more inclined to look for a democratic solution and much less inclined to provoke Catalans. (In a funny way, the PP government has been good for separatist Catalans. Whatever their intentions, they have been pushing Catalans towards supporting independence.)

Anyway, if you are interested in what Catalans and other Spaniards think of the political situation in relation to Catalonia, you might like to have a look an an article in today's El País based on recent polling. Most Catalans see a clash with Madrid inevitable, new survey shows [English version]
 
Thanks JHE

Catalonia calls early polls in fresh independence challenge
2015-08-04
Catalonia on Monday called early regional elections for September 27, polls that will serve as a proxy vote on independence from Spain and likely raise tensions with the central government in Madrid.

Catalan President Artur Mas, who has taken up the secession cause in recent years amid a surge in popular support, formally called the poll for September 27, shortly before a Spanish general election due by year-end.

The vote to elect a parliament in the wealthy northeastern region, a year earlier than necessary, ratchets up pressure on centre-right Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, who has ruled out Catalan independence.
 
Attitudes are shifting in Madrid too. "¡Qué se vayan!" (Let them clear off then!) seemingly on the rise as a bar opinion. I doubt that's how people would feel were it to actually happen though.
 
Back
Top Bottom