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Favelado said:
Puente de Vallecas was the only district in the whole city that didn't go PP in 2011. Obviously things have changed now. I think PP got 18% there this time. Ahora Madrid posters pointed out that life expectancy is 3 years lower in the area than in barrio Salamanca and that unemployment is about 5 times higher.

Your mate must hate living there. All that leftie scrawl on the walls everywhere.
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(ex-mate)

She's from there, so she must be used to it (and probably puts it down to all immigrants/perroflautas, if she likes Aguirre and the Toros...)
 
Aguirre is on the telly at the moment, giving a press conference from PP HQ. She's proposing an alliance of PP, Ciudadanos and PSOE to keep the extremists of Podemos (she means Ahora Madrid) from running Madrid.

I don't think she stands much chance of getting this off the ground.
 
JHE said:
Aguirre is on the telly at the moment, giving a press conference from PP HQ. She's proposing an alliance of PP, Ciudadanos and PSOE to keep the extremists of Podemos (she means Ahora Madrid) from running Madrid.

I don't think she stands much chance of getting this off the ground.
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No chance and she must know it. Absolutely desperate. Brilliant to see her grasping and hopefully failing.
 
A firm no from Carmona

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">A la propuesta Aguirre recibir sus votos, Ciudadanos o el PSOE, mi respuesta, en el nombre del PSOE y en el mío propio, fue un NO rotundo.</p>&mdash; AntonioMiguelCarmona (@AntonioMiguelC) <a href="">May 26, 2015</a></blockquote>
 
JHE said:
A firm no from Carmona

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">A la propuesta Aguirre recibir sus votos, Ciudadanos o el PSOE, mi respuesta, en el nombre del PSOE y en el mío propio, fue un NO rotundo.</p>&mdash; AntonioMiguelCarmona (@AntonioMiguelC) <a href="">May 26, 2015</a></blockquote>
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He'd have to be thick as pig shit to accept. I mean if the PSOE think they have problems now, imagine where there'd be after years of coalition with the Left's absolute bete noire. By the next time round they'd probably be sub-5% ffs.
 
Do these results provide new impetus nationally for Podemos or do they stand in isolation? I'm in two minds as to whether they'll affect the general election polling or not.
 
This is all great fun. Stories of Aguirre crying before her press confrence the other night and lot of mudslinging. Espe has accused Manuela of wanting "to use the mayoralty as a trampoline to bring down democracy" (must be a hell of a trampoline). In response Pablo Iglesias has said that Aguirre should "clean her mouth out" and refers to Manuela as a "hero".

I had to watch THREE adverts before I could see the clip, so only give it a go if you've got some patience.

http://www.telecinco.es/informativo...lecinco2-entrevista_integra_2_1993455201.html
 
treelover said:
is this correct?, must be from a low base, one reads and hears the economy has been on its knees.

Owen Jones article on the elections, btw.
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In my town here in Andalucia there is little sign of any recovery. I don't see it recovering for another two or possibly three years, when it will be too late for some.
 
treelover said:
is this correct?, must be from a low base, one reads and hears the economy has been on its knees.

Owen Jones article on the elections, btw.
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What a load of fucking shit thought. It's like a "radical leftist" in Spain saying "The Spanish left must learn from the new radical British populist left movement Changeit. The PSOE needs to get its house in order and bear this in mind."

VOTE PSOE FOR RADICAL CHANGE.

Off you fuck Owen. What a muppet. Exhibit A of the British left getting nowhere fast.
 
Good to see that Podemos are thinking beyond the outmoded Left/Right paradigm:

"The first is that this shift is relocating us on what we have considered from the beginning to be a losing axis—the traditional left–right axis. We believe that on that basis there is no possibility of change in Spain, and the risk we face now is being relocated precisely on that axis, as opposed to defining a new centrality that, to repeat, has nothing to do with the centre of the political spectrum."

http://newleftreview.org/II/93/pablo-iglesias-spain-on-edge
 
Riklet said:
What a load of fucking shit thought. It's like a "radical leftist" in Spain saying "The Spanish left must learn from the new radical British populist left movement Changeit. The PSOE needs to get its house in order and bear this in mind."

VOTE PSOE FOR RADICAL CHANGE.

Off you fuck Owen. What a muppet. Exhibit A of the British left getting nowhere fast.
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He knows fuck all about Podemos, he doesn't even know how to say it, what a waste of an education. He just writes the same article over and over - everything is shit, Labour is shit and there is some different stuff going over there but the Tories are worse so vote Labour
 
treelover said:
is this correct?, must be from a low base, one reads and hears the economy has been on its knees.

Owen Jones article on the elections, btw.
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Economy is growing but IMO has been stimulated by state construction spending which now tailing off in 2015. Also if no growth in 2013/2014 where do u go? Become Greece? Spain economy will take multiple decades to recover, maybe 100 years or more just my 2 c worth.
 
Astonishing disheartening worthwhile intriguing interview in the new edition of New left Review with Iglesias - cut through all the gramsci this gramsci that in the first 1/3 to get to the real cruddas:

Spain on Edge

A concrete example of this is the complex scenario we’ve had today [15 April] with the visit of the King of Spain to the European Parliament. This confronts us with a difficult issue: the monarchy. Why difficult? Because it immediately takes us out of the centrality of the field. Basically there are two options. The first, traditionally taken by the left—Izquierda Unida, for example—is to say: ‘We are republicans. We do not accept the monarchy, so we will not go to the reception for the King of Spain; we do not recognize this space of legitimacy for the head of state.’ That—even if it’s an ethically and morally virtuous position, which we can recognize and acknowledge—immediately puts one in the space of the radical left, in a very traditional framework, and straightaway alienates large sectors of the population who, no matter what they think about other issues, and despite their identifying the previous King with the corruption of the old regime, feel sympathetic towards this new one. The monarchy is one of the most highly valued institutions in Spain, so that immediately antagonizes social sectors that are fundamental for political change. So, two options: one, we don’t go to the reception and stay trapped within the traditional framework of the far left, in which there is very little possibility for political action. Or, two, we go, and then Podemos appears surrounded by the parties of ‘the Caste’, respecting the institutional framework—as traitors, or monarchists, or whatever.
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So what did we do, in this uncomfortable, contradictory scenario? We went, with our usual aesthetic—casual dress and so forth, disregarding their protocol; it’s a small thing, but it’s symbolically representative of the kind of things Podemos does. And I gave the King a present of the DVDs of Game of Thrones, proposing it as an interpretive tool for understanding what is going on in Spain. Our aim is to dance within this contradiction, within these positionings, with an ironic message that is at the same time a plebeian gesture—and which is so far working very well in the media, by the way—that allows us to shift the axis of the discussion: not monarchy versus republic, a discourse immediately interpreted in terms of the heritage of the Spanish Civil War, which unfortunately is a losing frame in the battle for social interpretation. Instead we try to say that it’s a problem of democracy: citizens should, and must, have the right to elect their head of state. On the other hand, we don’t want to look like just another institutional party, supporting the monarchy. Thus the plebeian and ironic gesture that allows Podemos to play with transversality, despite the risks it entails. Of course, this is a complex position to maintain, but it is the only one that can at least allow the political game to remain open—that can enable Podemos to play within those contradictions and not be marginalized in a position that is pure but at the same time powerless, in order to challenge and question the status quo.
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butchersapron I was going to accuse you of making a daft comparison. I think Iglesias is genuinely more radical than Cruddas even at his most compromised and that his aims of a fundamental deepening of democracy and political change run a lot deeper.

However, after reading your post I went to El Pais and saw the headline "Section Of Podemos Criticises The Drift Towards Being Just Another Party"

http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2015/06/10/actualidad/1433964284_566358.html

Policies that were winners at the European elections, such as a guaranteed minimum income, were dropped in the run up to the municipal elections. Some complaints that internally the party is not being run in as democratically way as it could be, and that the "circles" (or soviets as Aguirre insists on calling them) are not playing as big a role as they could be.

So you might be on to something. Although a pro-PSOE El Pais exaggerating internal splits in a rival party comes with its own baggage.

Luckily, there is still an appetite for vaguely leftist policies amongst voters here, so I don't think we'd see Podemos compromised to the point where it was attacking the poor or making anti-immigration mugs. Okay, maybe give it a decade.
 
Electoralism subjects them to the same pressures as other social democratic parties though, doesn't it? I don't see why they should be immune because Iglesias quotes Gramsci approvingly.

(I mean, for example, the monarchy thing makes perfect sense from his position, doesn't it? Why alienate people who might vote for you over something that isn't your main concern?)
 
Lo Siento. said:
Electoralism subjects them to the same pressures as other social democratic parties though, doesn't it? I don't see why they should be immune because Iglesias quotes Gramsci approvingly.

(I mean, for example, the monarchy thing makes perfect sense from his position, doesn't it? Why alienate people who might vote for you over something that isn't your main concern?)
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He's alienating the circles though, it would seem. There was some disquiet about him attending the reception amongst supporters.

Anyway, that particular event is fairly irrelevant in the scheme of things.

With regards to local elections....

The seats at the town hall have been divvied up and it's interesting to see the shape of the new city government. I don't know things are going in Barcelona but the number of parties involved makes things more complex I'd imagine.

Podemos candidate will be responsible for policing which I find interesting. With there being city, regional and national levels of government I'm not sure exactly how much influence they will have. I guess the council here have control over the Municipal Police but anything that can be done to stop them handing out stupid fines for nothing will be welcome.

The next six months in Barcelona and Madrid really give us an indication of the true mettle of fledgling popular movements. IU are pressing for an Ahora Madrid/Barcelona en comú type popular front in the general elections, but they would seeing as their very existence seems to be under threat.

Finally,

There was an interesting poll this week that showed that alot of C's supporters had shit themselves and gone back to voting PP in the wake of the municipal elections delivering results for the left. PSOE have edged over Podemos, who are now just in third. Ciudadanos had stolen Podemos's thunder in recent months and become the big story until 24th May.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/06/06/media/1433613613_640079.html
 
dessiato said:
In my town here in Andalucia there is little sign of any recovery. I don't see it recovering for another two or possibly three years, when it will be too late for some.
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Are you near Grenada, I stayed in the mountains near there for a while, poverty was very obvious then, though the boom was still on, just.
 
Lo Siento. said:
Electoralism subjects them to the same pressures as other social democratic parties though, doesn't it? I don't see why they should be immune because Iglesias quotes Gramsci approvingly.

(I mean, for example, the monarchy thing makes perfect sense from his position, doesn't it? Why alienate people who might vote for you over something that isn't your main concern?)
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yes, plenty of the euro-communists went onto be Blairites, etc.
 
Talking of alienating people, various senior people in Podemos (including Echenique) stating today that they do want a open list to include the IU.

Tricky one for Pablo the opportunist. On the one hand it's 4% of the vote and 70,000 party members for very little effort. On the other hand it makes him look like an actual leftist and means right-wingers can point out he's in a party with the actual PCE.
 
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Lo Siento. said:
Talking of alienating people, various senior people in Podemos (including Echenique) stating today that they do want a open list to include the IU.

Tricky one for Pablo the opportunist. On the one hand it's 4% of the vote and 70,000 party members for very little effort. On the other hand it makes him look like an actual leftists and means right-wingers can point out he's in a party with the actual PCE.
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As a national strategy it's better for Podemos to reject this. Their message is so much about creating something new that they shouldn't let themselves get lumped in with the "old" over 4% of vote share.
 
Miners kicking off in north west Spain, unloading trains of imported coal, blockading power stations...don't wanna say I told you so but...in fact I do, ;) will be more of this to come...
 
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