Owen Jones targeted and attacked

[Magnus McGinty]

An opportunistic burglar will still need to plan how to do the robbery, but hadn’t set out to target anywhere particular. There is a difference.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Like they walk down a street, see a window open in a house - opportunism.
But they still require thought, they don’t fall into it accidentally.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Premeditation suggests intelligence then planning.

 

[DexterTCN]

Pre-meditated would be knowing he would be in the pub, or arranging it.

This is entirely opportunistic.

It's not the point. The constant rise in violence is the point.

It's way passed the 'way too much' point.

 

[Cid]

Premeditation suggests intelligence then planning.

That's just your interpretation of the word though. Which is why it's not very useful... there's the sort of armchair lawyer-ish version, which means any degree of planning. This is entirely correct. Then there is the other extreme, which means a plan made in advance. This is also entirely correct. As are any number of positions in between. It's a crap word.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

That's just your interpretation of the word though. Which is why it's not very useful... there's the sort of armchair lawyer-ish version, which means any degree of planning. This is entirely correct. Then there is the other extreme, which means a plan made in advance. This is also entirely correct. As are any number of positions in between. It's a crap word.

Fair enough, but I wasn’t talking about law, I was talking about if the far right have advanced into C18 style tactics or not.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I dunno, I think arguing over whether it's opportunistic or heavily planned is neither here nor there. Either are premeditated as neither random nor spontaneous. Seems a bit of a cul-de-sac this

Oh look there's Owen

Pre-meditated would be knowing he would be in the pub, or arranging it.

This is entirely opportunistic.

It's not the point. The constant rise in violence is the point.

It's way passed the 'way too much' point.

Nope. They 'planned' to attack him after he left the pub. They waited for him to leave the pub. That planning and waiting and then attacking is the premeditation even if it started with them spotting him in the pub opportunity.

 

[DexterTCN]

Oh look there's Owen

Nope. They 'planned' to attack him after he left the pub. They waited for him to leave the pub. That planning and waiting and then attacking is the premeditation.

No it isn't. There is no 'pre' the pub.

 

[planetgeli]

This thread is painful.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No it isn't. There is no 'pre' the pub.

The pre the pub is they know who he is and dislike him. The pre him leaving the pub is them spotting him and waiting for him to leave with intent.

 

[DexterTCN]

Nope. That's malice aforethought, already being inclined to batter someone.

 

[treelover]

Various people now calling for a militant Anti fascist street movement (again).

be good if there was a mass militant anti-austerity/anti-poverty movement as well,

may win some over as well.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Nope. That's malice aforethought, already being inclined to batter someone.

Word salad.

 

[cupid_stunt]

They 'planned' to attack him after he left the pub. They waited for him to leave the pub. That planning and waiting and then attacking is the premeditation even if it started with them spotting him in the pub opportunity.

How do you know this?

I've not read any reports claiming that.

 

[andysays]

Looks like Rutita's moved on from mind reading Urban posters and is now able to mind read anyone involved in a newsworthy incident.

Lucky she's decided to use her superpower for good and not evil, I suppose

 

[Proper Tidy]

This thread is painful.

.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Looks like Rutita's moved on from mind reading Urban posters and is now able to mind read anyone involved in a newsworthy incident.

Lucky she's decided to use her superpower for good and not evil, I suppose

Oh look at you being a pointless, malicious little prick as usual.



Must really suck to be you I suppose.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Owen Jones: attackers targeted me for my politics

the level of planning is not really of any relevance - the point is that he was was singled out and violently attacked because he is a well known left wing journalist - (and undoubtedly his sexuality adds to their hatred of him)- and it is part of a wider pattern of threats, violence and intimidation by the far right against those they see as "the enemy"

Anti-fascist campaigners have told Jones there had been “chatter online” about the incident at the Lexington pub on Pentonville Road hours before he went public about it on Saturday afternoon.

“What they had heard was that far-right football hooligans were boasting in closed groups along the lines of ‘Owen Jones has been done in, in Islington,’” Jones said.

In May, Timothy Scott, an activist who co-founded the far-right group Pegida in the UK, posted a picture of Jones at a pub in Islington. “The message was on the lines of we are watching you, we are going to get you,” Jones said.

 

[cantsin]

Terrible thing to have happened, and I hope he's not too shaken up.

Hard to know what happened; whether it was a 'you looking at my pint?!' run-of- the-mill drunken pub fight, or something much more worrying e.g. a homophobic attach by bigots, or fascists targeting leftists in planned attacks.

yep, deffo ' hard to know ' whether OJ and his lot were involved in a 'you looking at my pint?!' run-of- the-mill drunken pub fight', or not, really, really fucking ' hard to know' - OJ and his mates are probably at it every week, lairy bstards

 

[ska invita]

Enough evidence now?

 

[cantsin]

I don't feel any need to decide one way or another what happened; I'll hold off forming any judgement until more facts are known. Obviously, in the meantime, I wish him a speedy recovery, and I'll continue to remain vigilant against violence from fascists (who are becoming increasingly emboldened).

you lot have properly lost the plot.

 

[cantsin]

Surely it was premeditated if someone spotted him in the pub & arranged for him to get a kicking on the way out?

If there was an element of planning then it was premeditated. Or am I just being thick?

Sounds more like opportunistic.

ETA - I.e. not random but not planned for days/weeks in advance.

yep, cos that's what 'premediated' means

what a thread, honestly, makes you want to give up

 

[Humberto]

yep, cos that's what 'premediated' means

what a thread, honestly, makes you want to give up

Pathetic Sharks a bit.

 

[emanymton]

People are getting too hung up on the legal meaning of words.

If we assume he was attacked because of his politics (and there is still a chance that isn't the case), did a group of people set out that night with the intent of finding and attacking him. Or did they just spot him in the pub that night. While the outcome may be the same the political implications are far worse for the first scenario. Of course we may never know one way or the other.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Urban focussing in on the important things as usual, I see.

 

[Pickman's model]

i see that there's a crop of pedants here who would be the envy of any internet forum. i never thought of delving into the minutiae of what premeditated meant, but am glad there are posters on these boards who feel that apparently worthless seam needed to be examined in great detail for valuable ore.

 

[Pickman's model]

rather shit piece (unsurprisingly) by brendan o'neill about the attack on owen jones - Who’s really demonising journalists?

in essence he's saying that owen jones and the rest of 'the left' have rabble-roused a load, and you come to this paragraph



and you wonder whether o'neill's ever read stories like The Sun and Daily Mail accused of 'fuelling prejudice' in hate crime report or seen any of these

Spoiler

 

[Proper Tidy]

That sentence is incredible when you think about it

 

[sim667]

That sentence is incredible when you think about it

The manchester arena bomber was a member of the LIFG, a MI5 cultivate Jihadi group that were allowed to travel across Europe and battle against Gaddafi in Libya, before being allowed to return by our then home sec at the time (Theresa May), despite being in a known Jihadist group looking for a target in the UK.

To say he was radicalised by left wing news is not only fucking ridiculous, it makes excuses for our own security services knowingly allowing a bombing by an organisation they cultivated to happen in the UK.

 

[bellaozzydog]

WTF is wrong with Urban