Sword attack in Hainault, London. 30 April 2024

[A380]

Not sure there's that much to be read in to suspect not being formally questioned yet.

from the perspective of someone who's not and has never been police or lawyer, i'd be inclined to think first priority would be to disarm suspect, and second to arrest them.

would be fairly certain they are under police guard so they can't bugger off from hospital

we don't know just what medical treatment suspect has needed, but wonder if there would be a risk that questioning a suspect while they are recovering from something that needed an anaesthetic, might give a defence lawyer some loopholes?

If he’s had some kind of psychotic episode could be days or weeks before doctors say he’s well enough to be interviewed. Obviously if he’s pissed or drugged you can’t even start to interview or do a mental ill heath assessment till that’s worn off.

Quite rightly too.

 

[A380]

I would have thought they would have relied on an armed response even so. Not that I know the protocols. Guess they had to act as quickly as they could with what they had (tasers). RIP to the child.

ARVs would have been running but in the outer boroughs might take a while to get there. Outside London could be up to half an hour. That’s a lot of stabby time which is why non firearms old bill had to engage .

 

[A380]

And the main thing to remember in this is that there is a family tonight who know their little boy will never come home again.

RIP

 

[Spymaster]

It's too easy for them though. Probably wanted to die anyway, don't give em what they want. Also I wonder what the families or the victims would feel like.. I don't know, not saying either is right or wrong in terms of him being alive or dead but at least if he's alive it might give some answers. The dead can't talk

I don't think the wishes of the perpetrator should feature at all. If someone with a weapon poses a serious threat to people, he should be dealt with as quickly as possible with as little risk to the public or police as possible. In the case of a cunt with a sword that'll probably mean shooting him. Whilst it's a massive credit to the young coppers who are prepared to tackle shit like this with a baton and maybe a plastic pop gun (see also Leytonstone tube), they shouldn't have to. I don't advocate arming all police, btw; just more of them.

 

[Dogsauce]

I don't think the wishes of the perpetrator should feature at all. If someone with a weapon poses a serious threat to people, he should be dealt with as quickly as possible with as little risk to the public or police as possible. In the case of a cunt with a sword that'll probably mean shooting him. Whilst it's a massive credit to the young coppers who are prepared to tackle shit like this with a baton and maybe a plastic pop gun (see also Leytonstone tube), they shouldn't have to. I don't advocate arming all police, btw; just more of them.

Sword, table leg, who can tell the difference, just shoot, right?

 

[Spymaster]

Sword, table leg, who can tell the difference, just shoot, right?

Don't be silly.

 

[Silas Loom]

ARVs would have been running but in the outer boroughs might take a while to get there. Outside London could be up to half an hour. That’s a lot of stabby time which is why non firearms old bill had to engage .

I wouldn’t be surprised to see lethal drones deployed to active shooter/stabber incidents in the next few years. Ukraine is forcing a step-change in battle drone response speed, offensive capability and cheapness, dual-use kit will beat ARVs on all three metrics soon.

Irresistible to the MPS at a time when firearms-trained officers are getting very mulish about criminal liability and IOPC investigations. Decisions to shoot someone from a drone would be taken in control rooms by officers senior enough to know how to cover their arses.

 

[Dogsauce]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see lethal drones deployed to active shooter/stabber incidents in the next few years. Ukraine is forcing a step-change in battle drone response speed, offensive capability and cheapness, dual-use kit will beat ARVs on all three metrics soon.

Irresistible to the MPS at a time when firearms-trained officers are getting very mulish about criminal liability and IOPC investigations. Decisions to shoot someone from a drone would be taken by officers senior enough to know how to cover their arses.

Drones aren’t particularly good for shooting, the recoil tends to fuck things up and hence affect accuracy. Better for dropping stuff or exploding on impact, which isn’t going to happen.

 

[Spymaster]

Drones aren’t particularly good for shooting, the recoil tends to fuck things up and hence affect accuracy.

It shouldn't be too long before that's no longer the case though.

 

[Silas Loom]

Drones aren’t particularly good for shooting, the recoil tends to fuck things up and hence affect accuracy. Better for dropping stuff or exploding on impact, which isn’t going to happen.

Sure, for now, but the exact nature of lethal capability will surely evolve after another three years of drones buzzing between the Russian and Ukrainian front lines, though. Highly directional explosions on impact, say, something that minimises the risk to bystanders.

 

[Dogsauce]

It shouldn't be too long before that's no longer the case though.

Not sure, the laws of physics don’t really change. It’d need to be a heavy drone. Perhaps a taser would work.

 

[klang]

I feel desperately sad for that poor child and its family, for everyone injured, every witness, relative, and every person who will undoubtedly suffer from long term trauma after witnessing such a horrendous crime.

I'm feeling helpless and incredibly sad that these crimes seem to happen more regularly and that they seem more and more normal to us.
We have entered an incredibly violent period where life is less and less valued, stoked by the media, social media, wars, genocide, de-humanising human crisis, dis-mantling society, cutting back on services, etc etc.

These crimes make me feel helpless and seriously worried about the future.

The last thing on my mind is how the captured perpetrator should have been shot by a person or a bombed by a drone.

Human life is still valuable to me.

I'm glad the perpetrator is still alive and can be interviewed at some point. We might learn a little bit about how to prevent these crimes in the future.

 

[Elpenor]

Thank fuck a few of the more gung-ho posters are not in a position to deploy deadly force or increase the availability of it to law enforcement.

 

[Silas Loom]

I feel desperately sad for that poor child and its family, for everyone injured, every witness, relative, and every person who will undoubtedly suffer from long term trauma after witnessing such a horrendous crime.

I'm feeling helpless and incredibly sad that these crimes seem to happen more regularly and that they seem more and more normal to us.
We have entered an incredibly violent period where life is less and less valued, stoked by the media, social media, wars, genocide, de-humanising human crisis, dis-mantling society, cutting back on services, etc etc.

These crimes make me feel helpless and seriously worried about the future.

The last thing on my mind is how the captured perpetrator should have been shot by a person or a bombed by a drone.

Human life is still incredibly valuable to me.

The two cops who cornered and tasered the swordsman suffered significant injuries. There’s nothing callous or unsympathetic in considering how the situation could have been handled without putting unarmed officers at serious risk.

 

[kebabking]

On the purely technical side, you needn't use the UAV to actually fire the kinetic effect, you could just use it to designate with a laser - and they already do that - and send the effect from the local police station.

That might raise several other issues, but remote targeting and remote firing are available. There are not however perfect - as is nothing born of man...

 

[Spymaster]

The two cops who cornered and tasered the swordsman suffered significant injuries. There’s nothing callous or unsympathetic in considering how the situation could have been handled without putting unarmed officers at serious risk.

Apparently one female copper is in danger of losing her hand.

Still, thank fuck gung-ho posters aren't in a position to deploy deadly force, eh?

 

[Silas Loom]

Apparently one female copper is in danger of losing her hand.

Still, thank fuck gung-ho posters aren't in a position to deploy deadly force, eh?

Doubt that’s much of a consideration for the ACAB brigade.

 

[A380]

Sword, table leg, who can tell the difference, just shoot, right?

You ever actually seen the pictures of the table leg?

That sad incident was much more likely to have been what would now be described as a suicide by cop, and should have been resolved in a different way, almost certainly would have been nowadays.

But TBF it’s a great line to throw about so why not ?

 

[A380]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see lethal drones deployed to active shooter/stabber incidents in the next few years….

That’s because you are a fucking loon…

 

[krtek a houby]

Thank fuck a few of the more gung-ho posters are not in a position to deploy deadly force or increase the availability of it to law enforcement.

Some would make good coppers.

And by "good", I mean bad.

 

[Elpenor]

Apparently one female copper is in danger of losing her hand.

Still, thank fuck gung-ho posters aren't in a position to deploy deadly force, eh?

Doubt that’s much of a consideration for the ACAB brigade.

Not a question of being ACAB, which I certainly wouldn’t self describe as, it’s more the stuff klang mentions, the lack of support offered by the state to those who need it and the impact it has on them and others.

Giving cops more access to guns or imaginary vapourising drones isn’t going to fix the root cause. You may as well arm them with the crayons you’re using to write your posts, but the firearms officers would probably just chew on them as they do currently

 

[A380]

I feel desperately sad for that poor child and its family, for everyone injured, every witness, relative, and every person who will undoubtedly suffer from long term trauma after witnessing such a horrendous crime.

I'm feeling helpless and incredibly sad that these crimes seem to happen more regularly and that they seem more and more normal to us.
We have entered an incredibly violent period where life is less and less valued, stoked by the media, social media, wars, genocide, de-humanising human crisis, dis-mantling society, cutting back on services, etc etc.

These crimes make me feel helpless and seriously worried about the future.

The last thing on my mind is how the captured perpetrator should have been shot by a person or a bombed by a drone.

Human life is still valuable to me.

I'm glad the perpetrator is still alive and can be interviewed at some point. We might learn a little bit about how to prevent these crimes in the future.

I completely know what you mean, and feel the same. The only tiny ray of hope is that violent crime is way down on what it was here and in most of the rest of Europe. Which is why it’s even more shocking when it happens. No consolation to the family of the murdered boy yesterday and all the others involved though.

 

[Spymaster]

Not a question of being ACAB, which I certainly wouldn’t self describe as, it’s more the stuff klang mentions, the lack of support offered by the state to those who need it and the impact it has on them and others.

Oh fuck off.

The bastard hasn't even been questioned yet and you tools are already queuing up to suggest he's been let down by the state somehow. Yeah, it's "the state's" fault that he murdered a kid and nearly cut a young woman's arm off.

 

[Karl Masks]

It reminds me of the recent attack in Australia. Another lone guy with a blade.

Time to make sure people can't access these weapons. I reported a shop in town years ago for selling combat knives to kids. It was mainly a video game/dvd store, but had a sideline in bb guns and combat paraphenalia. A couple of kids asked me outside if they could pick up the knife they'd bought. I said no. While BB guns may constitute a harmless hobby in the right environment, these guns were made to resemble big movie star handguns like glocks and magnums and all that shit. That's not healthy

 

[Dogsauce]

There was an article on the local Reach PLC news website here in Bristol recently about a stabbing, among the (many) sponsored ads in line with the article was one for a knife sharpening device. This shit isn’t helpful. Twitter quite often carries ads for banned weaponry too.

 

[Dogsauce]

I completely know what you mean, and feel the same. The only tiny ray of hope is that violent crime is way down on what it was here and in most of the rest of Europe. Which is why it’s even more shocking when it happy. No consolation to the family of the murders boy yesterday and all the others involved though.

Violent crime is considerably less than it used to be, it’s just that real-time news and social media tends to amplify people’s perception, sometimes deliberately for political reasons (fear is a good motivator). People don’t seem to get battered on a night out quite as often as they used to, a couple of decades ago fighting was pretty normalised. No comfort for the victim here however.

 

[Elpenor]

Oh fuck off.

The bastard hasn't even been questioned yet and you tools are already queuing up to suggest he's been let down by the state somehow. Yeah, it's "the state's" fault that he murdered a kid and nearly cut a young woman's arm off.

Not what I said. I’ll leave you to it

 

[Silas Loom]

HMG is constantly trying to come up with legislation that outlaws bad knives, like “zombie” ones. Maybe they should take a leaf out of the approach to novel pyschoactives and just ban all bladed articles unless they are explicitly designed and marketed for food preparation or other legitimate uses.

 

[Spymaster]

Not what I said.

... the lack of support offered by the state to those who need it

It's exactly what you suggested, unless you were referring to the lack of a firearm being supplied to the police officer with the partially severed arm.

 

[Idris2002]

Any other country, except perhaps New Zealand, the first copper on scene would have shot him. Here they got stuck in with a bit of metal fishing rod, some pepper in a tin and a tems machine with wires and the subject gets to go to hospital rather than the mortuary.

Still ACAB and that….

The Halle killer was taken alive, after killing two people with his home-made gun.