Attacking politicians? Unpicking the ethical dimensions.

[burtabraham]

Fucking hell

 

[TopCat]

Maybe I read you wrong. God analogies make me think of how much this place has changed.

Bless

 

[burtabraham]

Maybe I read you wrong. God analogies make me think of how much this place has changed.

Bless

How did you read me?

 

[Flavour]

I am fine with milkshakes and rocks being thrown at Farage. I don't care if it makes him sympathetic or wins him votes. The point is he is scum and deserves to be hit in the face with a variety of objects, liquid and solid, until he is no longer comfortable being out in public. All this tactical stuff is besides the point. It's Nigel Farage. Of course it's ethically okay to throw rocks at him.

 

[burtabraham]

I am fine with milkshakes and rocks being thrown at Farage. I don't care if it makes him sympathetic or wins him votes. The point is he is scum and deserves to be hit in the face with a variety of objects, liquid and solid, until he is no longer comfortable being out in public. All this tactical stuff is besides the point. It's Nigel Farage. Of course it's ethically okay to throw rocks at him.

What are you basing your ethics on though? Your emotions alone?

 

[Flavour]

What are you basing your ethics on though? Your emotions alone?

Class war

 

[burtabraham]

Class war

That doesn't answer the question

 

[Dogsauce]

As such, the rule ‘treat others as you would like to be treated’ does not exist in the abstract, born out of a naive desire to be nice, but is a basic response to the fact that what goes around has a tendency to come around.

i tell you what, I’m OK with that as long as those harmed by Farage’s frequently platformed words get to appear on every mainstream news channel spreading hateful lies about him and his ilk in return. What goes around comes around, right? Until then we’ll deal with this asymmetry by chucking stuff.

 

[chilango]

That doesn't answer the question

It does.

Whether you agree or not.

It is a coherent answer that identified the ethical basis behind the position.

 

[Pickman's model]

How did you read me?

Like an open book no doubt

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes. If left wing activists start throwing thing at right wing figures, then right wing activists will start throwing things at left wing figures.

There’s a principle within many religious traditions that you should not be disrespectful to others in case they turn round and blaspheme God in return. In this situation it is the initial act of disrespect that is seen as the cause of the blasphemy, making the first person guilty of blasphemy themselves.

By analogy I would argue that a person throwing an object at a right wing figure, if it causes a similar act to occur against a left wing figure, is partially responsible for that second attack.

You're assuming that there were no prior attacks from the right. Which is a fucking big assumption. Especially after the past 14 years. You're something of a clueless willing, and a dullard to boot

 

[burtabraham]

It does.

Whether you agree or not.

It is a coherent answer that identified the ethical basis behind the position.

It really doesn't. I'm asking you for the ethical foundations upon which you wage your 'class war'. Presumably the foundations are that Farage's politics need to be defeated. Why then would you deliberately advocate an action that advances his politics by making him seem sympathetic, and therefore increasing the number of people supporting him. As I said, I think you are just operating on an emotional level.

 

[burtabraham]

i tell you what, I’m OK with as long as those harmed by Farage’s frequently platformed words get to appear on every mainstream news channel spreading hateful lies about him and his ilk in return. What goes around comes around, right? Until then we’ll deal with this asymmetry by chucking stuff.

The point is that throwing things at Farage will lead to things being thrown at people on the left.

 

[burtabraham]

You're assuming that there were no prior attacks from the right. Which is a fucking big assumption. Especially after the past 14 years. You're something of a clueless willing, and a dullard to boot

I'm not assuming anything. Why the aggression? Can people not control their emotions round here?

 

[brogdale]

The point is that throwing things at Farage will lead to things being thrown at people on the left.

Thought this discussion was about politicians?

 

[burtabraham]

Thought this discussion was about politicians?

Do the left not have politicians?

 

[brogdale]

Do the left not have politicians?

Not that I'm aware of

 

[burtabraham]

Not that I'm aware of

Fair point. There does seem to be a shortage of them, I agree.

 

[brogdale]

Fair point. There does seem to be a shortage of them, I agree.

Exactly; they're all fair game

 

[campanula]

O, I am all in favour of violent and bloody class war...but against property, reputations, ideologies...not chucking an egg at someone, FFS. I am not even that inclined to go down some personal hate path either,much as I loathe and despise Shammer, he is a representation of a mindset, a hugely unjustifiable, anti-human, utterly selfish shitshow. While I wouldn't do even the mildest damage to a person or animal, I don't have many problems with a sustained class warfare. Re-allocation, occupation, ridicule, wrecking. I am not really that fussed about polite protests, marching around and such either. There is power to be exploited but we need to organise (and not round some strong man charismatic (Starmer and Sunak, FFS - dies of laughter)

It wasn't that long ago when the world had their collective eyes opened to the realisation that the' important people', in our society, are not some fucking creatives or internet twats...but, along with the obvious public sector workers, delivery drivers, retail workers, care workers were suddenly classified as key workers (yet were given not a freaking bean in recompense (unlike the furlough and endless grants for the middle classes). We simply could not cope without regular supplies of toilet rolls. We just need to be more organised, around ideas which resonate. Our power, our resilience.

 

[bellaozzydog]

I don’t think that is true of Farage’s supporters and their playbooks. It’s true of Yaxley-Lennon’s, though, and physical altercations with them are absolutely justifiable in moral and tactical terms.

Milkshakes and other silly, harmless humiliations should be the limit with the likes of Farage.

Apply violence till the fuckers don’t come on the streets again

Farage no pun intended will happily milk (shake) any publicity he can get

 

[chilango]

It really doesn't. I'm asking you for the ethical foundations upon which you wage your 'class war'. Presumably the foundations are that Farage's politics need to be defeated. Why then would you deliberately advocate an action that advances his politics by making him seem sympathetic, and therefore increasing the number of people supporting him. As I said, I think you are just operating on an emotional level.

Me? That's not my position. I just accept that it's a coherent and logical one with a clear ethical basis.

...but you misunderstand, quite fundamentally it seems, what class war is if you think that Farage getting sympathy or not is a key aspect of it.

As for "operating on an emotional level" it is precisely doing this (allowing my emotional reactions to play a part in my ethical reasoning) that prevents me from basing my actions on the idea of class war.

 

[burtabraham]

Me? That's not my position. I just accept that it's a coherent and logical one with a clear ethical basis.

...but you misunderstand, quite fundamentally it seems, what class war is if you think that Farage getting sympathy or not is a key aspect of it.

As for "operating on an emotional level" it is precisely doing this (allowing my emotional reactions to play a part in my ethical reasoning) that prevents me from basing my actions on the idea of class war.

It's certainly possible I misunderstand your position. But to be fair, the initial post I was responding to was two words long, so there isn't much to work with there. Maybe you could pad out your position a bit for me.

 

[ChrisD]

Exeter woman's stand against Nigel Farage goes viral

Kalkidan, who runs Sancho's on Fore Street, wanted to take the chance to speak to Farage in person

www.devonlive.com

I'm against any physical hurt ( I don't count milkshakes or soft fruit.)....
Was very proud of the actions of this friend of mine when NF came to my home town a few years ago.

I turned up to hurl abuse at the red Brexit bus in 2016 but that bastard Johnson had disembarked at Newton Abbot so missed the opportunity

 

[chilango]

It's certainly possible I misunderstand your position. But to be fair, the initial post I was responding to was two words long, so there isn't much to work with there. Maybe you could pad out your position a bit for me.

I'm not confident I have a position. I'm conflicted between the right to self-defence (which I think attacking the likes of Farage is) and the desire not to inflict harm on other living things

 

[Sasaferrato]

No politician, of whatever stripe should be assaulted as they go about their business.

 

[chilango]

No politician, of whatever stripe should be assaulted as they go about their business.

Putin? Mugabe? Saddam?

 

[Ax^]

No politician, of whatever stripe should be assaulted as they go about their business.

tell that to cable street

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm uneasy about any sort of physical attack.

It's not you his goons will be coming for once he's in charge though is it?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Putin? Mugabe? Saddam?

Allende? Nasser? Kimathi?