Proper Tidy
Arsed
Alright but you wouldn't do this with anything else. 'Meet my lad, his name's Ben' 'well we'll wait and see what his name REALLY is'
Owen Jones targeted and attacked
- Thread starter Treacle Toes
- Start date
Alright but you wouldn't do this with anything else. 'Meet my lad, his name's Ben' 'well we'll wait and see what his name REALLY is'
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
He might do it with rape complaints. So do a lot of people.
Athos
Well-Known Member
This is just silly. Some things are less clear than others. And some (like their son's name) are known to a person better than other things e.g. others' motives.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not been in there as the Lexington but used to go in there now and again when it was the finca, used to do a good deal on 2 for 1 bottles. Quite a few staff from the job centre up the way used to use it. I've always thought of it, the Chapel and the joker as pretty safe pubs, certainly not heard of any associated violence before
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I dunno, I tend to believe what people say about unpleasant stuff they experienced unless a) it smells like bullshit or b) it's contradicted by something more believable but whatever
Athos
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I tend to neither believe nor disbelieve until I have sufficient facts to form a reasonable judgement.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Cunts.
I was just reading his write up of plebgate (andrew mitchell) in The Establishment last week. Which I'd half forgotten even happened, its in the back of my mind now,in the mists of time with roual moat summer now.
I was just reading his write up of plebgate (andrew mitchell) in The Establishment last week. Which I'd half forgotten even happened, its in the back of my mind now,in the mists of time with roual moat summer now.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I think rape is a peculiar case in which the terribly low rates of conviction mean that (unlike other offences where a neutral mindset might be better) justice is better served by investigators assuming the complainant is telling the truth from the outset (albeit the court can't, of course).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'd hope the investigators in this case too have started by believing oj in his complaint of being assaulted
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes, as that seems fairly incontrovertible. Presumably, though, they'll investigate the motive rather than accept at face value his 'reckon' that it was a far right attack. As they should, for all sorts of reasons e.g. the possibility of conspiracy charges against others not on the ground, the disruption of networks, or the possibility of an increased sentence if this was a homophobic attack.
Lurdan
old wave
A. "Owen Jones may have been deliberately attacked because he's gay and/or left-wing!"
Z. "hmm, I'll reserve judgement until I know more."
A. "Owen Jones may have been deliberately attacked because of his job as a middle class functionary perpetuating capitalist hegemony!"
Z. "Now that's crossing a line!"
Z. "hmm, I'll reserve judgement until I know more."
A. "Owen Jones may have been deliberately attacked because of his job as a middle class functionary perpetuating capitalist hegemony!"
Z. "Now that's crossing a line!"
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't think anyone is actually questioning that he was deliberately attacked. It also appears that the attack was politically motivated rather than random homophobia. The uncertainty seems to be whether the attack was premeditated.
The tweet posted earlier has OJ saying it was premeditated, and he clearly believes it was, but with the evidence as so far made public, I'm not sure we can yet say definitely one way or the other.
The tweet posted earlier has OJ saying it was premeditated, and he clearly believes it was, but with the evidence as so far made public, I'm not sure we can yet say definitely one way or the other.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
From my point of view I think it's worth demonstrating that opposition to/condemnation of the attack isn't just restricted to his supporters.
I've already overheard conversations where the condemnation of this attack in the media is contrasted with the "silence" over death threats to Farage.
There's an ugly atmosphere building.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's a difference between death threats and your actual attack with apparent indifference to serious injury or death. I don't know how many people here have had death threats or their address published in the fascist press, having had death threats where I used to live and having been attacked without provocation I think I'd take your actual death threat every time as it's less painful.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
It's not me that needs convincing of that.
That's the narrative taking shape "out there".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh that narrative is *way* out there. But attacks on journos are of course reported sympathetically in the press, because journalists don't like being attacked, it's not necessarily because half the outlets reporting it like either Owen Jones or his politics. If farage wants sympathy in the media for death threats he should angle for a regular column in the mail or similar so he's a figleaf of hackery about him.
Manter
Lunch Mob
Yes absolutely. Death threats are scary, but in the vast vast majority of cases meaningless*- they genuinely don’t have a plan to come and get you and after a while most are ignoreable.
*Doesn’t mean they are good, and people who make them need to be hunted down because of the psychological effect and the one in a howevermany
Humberto
Justice is order
Firstly, I hope the guy isn't too put out. Just taking it in context: it looks bleak, but the majority of them have politics so shallow that I'm expecting it to fizzle out. Let's face it it could have been worse, and unfortunately at some point it will be for somebody. They've already lost because they can't win. The more violence they engage in, the more people will turn against them. They've got shit principles and are horrible people. This is them at full flow. They rely on lies and slander, on innuendo and hiding their true face. They aren't the good guys. They probably know it but don't think it matters. If a group of them can rush Owen Jones and beat him up, then they just look like the idiots that they are. I'm not being funny, but he is hardly Floyd Mayweather is he?
Patteran
A nowadays excuse
Online, this 'but' reaction seems to be middle class control of the 'distribution of the sensible', as Ranciere called it - boundary policing. 'It's a shame, but if he'd stayed within the management guidelines, all this unpleasantness could have been avoided'.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
What worries me isn't so much a high profile public left-winger being attacked by a bunch of Far-right goons (though it is worrying, and I hope that Jones is ok, and can take appropriate measures to feel safe) but that people who aren't Far-right goons thinking this kinda thing is "fair game". Which is beginning to appear the case ime.
All's fair in love and war. If we're all gonna have a laugh at Tommy Robinson getting punched (or even punch him ourselves) and Farage getting milkshaked, then share a load of "Just punch a Nazi" memes then we've thrown down a gauntlet.
Not that that takes away any of my sympathy for Owen Jones.
Not that that takes away any of my sympathy for Owen Jones.
Athos
Well-Known Member
This is bollocks. There's no moral equivalence between us punching a fascist and a fascist punching someone.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I suspect he's saying rather if the left start twatting the right and chucking memes about it about, it shouldn't be a great surprise if they start twatting people on the left
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
Indeed! It's straight out of the "bad people on both sides" bullshit playbook.
To us , no.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Solidarity with Owen Jones.
What got me was that only a few hours before id heard about it, id been reading comments on "bin the labour party" facebook page - and not for the first I was struck by the seething hatred and vitriol within right wing leave circles towards their perceived enemies.
It was all "should be taken out" "hung/shot as traitors" - relentless spittle flecked obsessional rage- with no moderating voices.
It is no surprise that people are inspired by this shit to act on their hate - this isn't free speech, its a fascistic campaign of violence and intimidation aimed to shut down dissenting voices and dehumanise their opponents to the point where violence is not only seen as justified - but necessary.
They may be relatively small in number but - like a turd in a swimming pool - their effect is toxic way beyond their size. Fuckers like farage and johnson and right wing newpapers are stoking this.
What got me was that only a few hours before id heard about it, id been reading comments on "bin the labour party" facebook page - and not for the first I was struck by the seething hatred and vitriol within right wing leave circles towards their perceived enemies.
It was all "should be taken out" "hung/shot as traitors" - relentless spittle flecked obsessional rage- with no moderating voices.
It is no surprise that people are inspired by this shit to act on their hate - this isn't free speech, its a fascistic campaign of violence and intimidation aimed to shut down dissenting voices and dehumanise their opponents to the point where violence is not only seen as justified - but necessary.
They may be relatively small in number but - like a turd in a swimming pool - their effect is toxic way beyond their size. Fuckers like farage and johnson and right wing newpapers are stoking this.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
Nail. Meet. Head!
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