No place for Israel in Middle East, says Iran’s Ahmadinejad

[weltweit]

Many Jewish people are opposed to Zionism too. However you'll find it argued that extreme anti-zionism Is also anti-Semitic, this is where you get into the territory of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion that froggy (I think) referred to. However, by and large people are more receptive to criticisms about how a state is run, and the ideology supporting that, than to criticisms about people as a race.

What I am against, is the treatment of the Palestinians by the state of Israel.

This thread which iirc I started - was about Iran's Ahmadinejad making a speech. Immediately there was disagreement about what he had or had not said. Basically, if he had said zionism has no place in a modern middle east he would be on the side of the angels, but if he had said Israel had no place he would be with the devils. No one had seen the speech in Persian, no one had any kind of approved translation so it was left to debate.

I however in my anti-Israel stance have made a mistake which is to make a post conflating the actions of a few individuals with a race or a people. I do understand that this was wrong. However momentarily in the context of writing a post, it was an easy mistake to make, perhaps therin lies danger. I will have to think more clearly in future and restrict myself to clear anti-zionism.

 

[biggus dickus]

I love how every single time everyone acts surprised like 'Oh what? Jews get shit?'

 

[Mrs Magpie]

However momentarily in the context of writing a post, it was an easy mistake to make

The mistake was outing yourself as someone with anti-semitic views.

 

[weltweit]

I suspect you're the only person on this thread who thinks that. You've been hoist by your own petard.

Well I did acknowledge that there is no undoing what I posted. I did post that and there it remains.

I have never lived in close proximity to jewish people and my exposure to them has been limited as a consequence. I have had much more contact with muslims. Myself I am agnostic. Anyhow when I did come across a small number of jewish people they were involved in a dispute and they were absolutely merciless in demanding what I thought was unfair retribution for a wrong that had been done them. Yes it is wrong to extrapolate my impression of a few individuals onto a greater population. That is quite right and I was wrong to do that.

 

[weltweit]

The mistake was outing yourself as someone with anti-semitic views.

Well I consider that I have been educated, I am not anti-semietic I am anti-zionist. And it feels better.

 

[purenarcotic]

But you might work with Jews, they might serve you in the checkout, you have no idea. We don't all walk around in black hats and peyot.

 

[Casually Red]

So why is Syria Iran's closest Arab ally? Because Syria supported Iran against Saddam Hussein's aggression. That's why.

why did syria do that though . That would appear to be closer to the reasons for an alliancce.

 

[Casually Red]

Zionism has never been about coexistance. It has since its inception been about expropriation and land theft. It is a form of religious nationalism. One that says all jews, regardless of nationality, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of class, have something in common against all non Jews and that all Jews constitute a nation. It is a project to build a state on those terms, a Jewish state. Except, in that land there are many who are not Jews. A Jewish state then can only, by definition, mean the exclusion of those who do not belong to the nation. For this reason, all Zionism is racism and is antithetical to democracy because a democratic state cannot be based on the deliberate exclusion of citizens on the basis of religion or ethnicity which is precisely what a state defined in religious terms, as a Jewish state, must do. Only a secular state with equal rights for all regardless of religion can be called democratic

its about ubermenschen , untermenschen , lebensraum, gods chosen race, ultra nationalism , ultra militarism and ultra racism

and thats all its about

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I however in my anti-Israel stance have made a mistake which is to make a post conflating the actions of a few individuals with a race or a people. I do understand that this was wrong. However momentarily in the context of writing a post, it was an easy mistake to make, perhaps therin lies danger. I will have to think more clearly in future and restrict myself to clear anti-zionism.

What you mean is you "miss-spoke" and we should all forget about it and move on.

 

[weltweit]

What you mean is you "miss-spoke" and we should all forget about it and move on.

Oh I am sure some will not forget about it. More important is that I don't forget about it no?

 

[Kidda]

Well I consider that I have been educated, I am not anti-semietic I am anti-zionist. And it feels better.

There is a world outside your window.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am afraid that the actions of the state of Israel make me dislike it intensly, a cruel selfish regime which has been persecuting Palestinians mercilessly for generations. I have to add to that however that the few times I have actually met a Jew, and that is not a statistically valid number, they have been the type that believe in an eye for and eye, or perhaps ten eyes for an eye and have been totally devoid of human kindness, only interested in the rights they have assigned to themselves. I find the whole situation depressing, but I have zero sympathy for the jews.

You're conflating Jews and Jewry with the state of Israel and its' actions. Many of us vocally disapprove of what the state of Israel does in the name of world Jewry. Focus your dislike where it belongs, on the sort of Zionists who drive and staff such regimes, on their ideology and on the religious and secular cretins from Christendom who back them and finance their theft.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They both have the moral right to be there. It's a bit more complicated than racism! I know it's comforting to believe in some race shit but it doesn't help anyone

Please explain this "moral right".

 

[Pickman's model]

Well I consider that I have been educated, I am not anti-semietic I am anti-zionist. And it feels better.

you may have been educated but you still can't spell 'semitic'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the jews

Yeah, the Jews, the hooknosed blood-matzo eating greasy bastards!

 

[Pickman's model]

Well I consider that I have been educated, I am not anti-semietic I am anti-zionist. And it feels better.

so you can be anti-jewish in polite company?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland; Israel.

Point of order:
Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, but not necessarily a Jewish homeland in Israel.

 

[Pickman's model]

why not whack yourself over the head with a copyy of "protocols of the elders of zion" it could hardly do you any harm.

not heavy enough.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It has been a long, long fucking time since I've read any comment like that that wasn't on some ridiculous far right board.

Fucking hell 'the jews'? You've never met a nice Jew? What the fucking fuck?

If he'd said he'd met very few "nice" Israelis, I'd have been the first to agree with him. Most Israelis I've met have had all the social graces of a pustule-covered chimp with a shit-throwing fetish.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Point of order:
Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, but not necessarily a Jewish homeland in Israel.

...but not Madagascar
http://www.wordsoftheworld.co.uk/videos/madagascar.html

 

[purenarcotic]

I'm afraid I don't believe you, weltweit.

If you had confused Jews with Israel, well, I can accept that, because I realise people aren't aware you can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. But you made a mass generalisation based on interaction with a few people you weren't so keen on.

We all come across people who are nasty from all different races, religions and cultures. The rest of us seem to manage to realise that this is not a reflection on that race / religion / culture, but instead a reflection on that nasty individual.

I do not understand how you can mistype 'I have no sympathy for the Jews' and not think there was anything wrong with that. I suppose I'll never understand, so I might as well just leave it. I hope you think about this long and hard, you should do.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's because it's bigoted, ignorant, naked anti-semitism. I'm amazed no-one reported it.

Probably because it's so stupid as to appear ludicrous.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why even link "impressions of Jews that you have met" to the actions of Israel? Why even think like that?

Because we're all the same. We're all mini-Sharons on the inside.

 

[weltweit]

You're conflating Jews and Jewry with the state of Israel and its' actions. Many of us vocally disapprove of what the state of Israel does in the name of world Jewry. Focus your dislike where it belongs, on the sort of Zionists who drive and staff such regimes, on their ideology and on the religious and secular cretins from Christendom who back them and finance their theft.

Good advice, Thank you for that.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Well I consider that I have been educated

Keep going, an education isn't completed in half an evening.
http://www.wordsoftheworld.co.uk/videos/antisemitism.html
I'm sure that other posters here will suggest books and so on that will assist you.

 

[Pickman's model]

Because we're all the same. We're all mini-Sharons on the inside.

speak for yourself

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

you may have been educated but you still can't spell 'semitic'.

perhaps he meant he's not anti-semiotic

 

[Pickman's model]

perhaps he meant he's not anti-semiotic

he's by no means anti-emetic, as i've nearly chucked after reading his posts.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But you might work with Jews, they might serve you in the checkout, you have no idea. We don't all walk around in black hats and peyot.

Some of us wear nipple rings and tattoos!

 

[Pickman's model]

Some of us wear nipple rings and tattoos!

and nipple tassles?