New age cosmic hippies and the far right

[Bernie Gunther]

There is a logical error in your analysis.

Truths:
Some people you identify as hippies expose right-wing views
Some people who self identify as hippies expose right-wing views
Some right-wingers are hippies

From that you are falsely deducing that:
Hippies are right-wing.

Who is the "you" meant to be in that statement?

 

[Idaho]

Who is the "you" meant to be in that statement?

Those people on the thread who are coming to the false assumption.

 

[frogwoman]

to be honest the whole idea of/assumptions behind "dropping out" is itself pretty right wing even though it might be done for left wing reasons. if you think about it.

 

[Idaho]

The idea of not participating in the existing political and cultural order could easily be seen as left-wing.

 

[TruXta]

I think it needs clarifying which hippies one are referring to in this thread. Is it US hippies, UK hippies or hippies elsewhere? AFAIK in my homeland the hippie movement was quickly absorbed within far left maoist-leninist movements, so that would hardly support the thesis that the dominant hippie ideology was that of the far right. Incidentally, a google search for "hippies and the far right" has this thread as it's no 1 result

 

[SpineyNorman]

You can tell a lot about people by the things they choose to hate. The less rational and articulate their hates, the less likely much else about them will be rational.

There are plenty of elements, trends, fashions and ideals attributed to the (diverse) hippy movement which are worthy of contempt. But trying to bundle the concept of "hippy" as some unified theory, belief or practice that can be targetted for hate or criticism is intellectually moribund.

I think someone needs to get a sense of humour. Fuck's sake.

 

[Idaho]

The thread is similar to the numerous and oft-repeated urban threads going on about the "middle class". It's an ill-thought out but convienient target for spleen venting.

It's more about culture mores than anything fundamentally political.

 

[xes]

The idea of not participating in the existing political and cultural order could easily be seen as left-wing.

I laugh in the face of people who call me right wing, becasue I think we could exist without a goverment telling us what to do at every turn. I guess some people like to be told what to do, it saves them from having to think.

 

[Idaho]

I think someone needs to get a sense of humour. Fuck's sake.

You are saying that it's all a joke? Maybe I need a sense of humour, or maybe you need to actually be vaguely funny.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You are saying that it's all a joke? Maybe I need a sense of humour, or maybe you need to actually be vaguely funny.

It's the former. Definitely. Hope that helps.

 

[frogwoman]

The idea of not participating in the existing political and cultural order could easily be seen as left-wing.

It could be, the assumptions behind it, the idea that the only way one can change society is by dropping out and going off the grid, that class/social struggle within (with the aim to transform/overthrow) the existing framework is futile, etc, are not left wing in any traditional sense and the philosophy behind it becomes even more suspect when you realise that this is only open to people with the means to do so, without responsibilities back at home, etc.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think it's fair to say that there's definite cross-over between some new age thinking, particularly the stuff at the occult/conspiracy end, and some ideas of the right.

I don't actually recall anyone on this thread saying 'All hippies are right wing' or 'hippies are a priori right-wing' or anything of that sort. Perhaps I missed it though ...

edited to add: actually Maurice did sort of say the latter, but I'm pretty sure he was on a wind-up.

 

[Idaho]

Anti-hippy sentiment is the only prejudice I subscribe to (at least that I'm aware of) and I think it's a perfectly rational hatred. They all went on to be corporate overlords anyway.

See - another reason to hate hippies - we'd have eternal peace and love if only everyone smoked weed maaan.​

​

Hardly belly laughs. Not even wry smiles. Please feel free to repost some of your gems I may have missed.

 

[butchersapron]

I think it's fair to say that there's definite cross-over between some new age thinking, particularly the stuff at the occult/conspiracy end, and some ideas of the right.

I don't actually recall anyone on this thread saying 'All hippies are right wing' or 'hippies are a priori right-wing' or anything of that sort. Perhaps I missed it though ...

It's just Idaho blundering in not having read the thread as per normal. There's been very little discussion of hippies on the thread frankly, it's mostly been discussion of zeigeist and modern day consipraloons - and no one doing what he suggests.

 

[TruXta]

I think it's fair to say that there's definite cross-over between some new age thinking, particularly the stuff at the occult/conspiracy end, and some ideas of the right.

I don't actually recall anyone on this thread saying 'All hippies are right wing' or 'hippies are a priori right-wing' or anything of that sort. Perhaps I missed it though ...

edited to add: actually Maurice did sort of say the latter, but I'm pretty sure he was on a wind-up.

It's more than fair, it's a historical fact. But equally many ideas and practices associated with hippies would feed into egalitarian and communitarian projects, such as environmentalism and other decidedly non-right practices.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It's just Idaho blundering in not having read the thread as per normal. There's been very little discussion of hippies on the thread frankly, it's mostly been discussion of zeigeist and modern day consipraloons - and no one doing what he suggests.

Sure but the OP also made it pretty clear (I think) that he was talking about Zeitgeist/conspiraloons rather than say the Hog Farm

 

[Idaho]

It could be, the assumptions behind it, the idea that the only way one can change society is by dropping out and going off the grid, that class/social struggle within (with the aim to transform/overthrow) the existing framework is futile, etc, are not left wing in any traditional sense and the philosophy behind it becomes even more suspect when you realise that this is only open to people with the means to do so, without responsibilities back at home, etc.

I think that we could say that individualism and progression through some kind of self-awareness/retreat into self is possibly a unifying hippy ideal. Although I am not sure how far you could go with that. It's certainly a rejection of paternalist influences and previous beliefs or strictures. I can see why conventional leftists would be affronted with the rejection of marxist doctrine.

Hippism as middle class is perhaps more of a UK thing than a US one. In the US it was a rejection of the 1950s suburban post-war culture and the authority structures around that. Here in the UK it was more just a fringe of middle class drug users talking balls.

 

[butchersapron]

Sure but the OP also made it pretty clear (I think) that he was talking about Zeitgeist/conspiraloons rather than say the Hog Farm

Indeed, even the thread title itself does that.

Just reading back the thread i noticed Meltingpot referring to Stewart Brand as one of the positives about the original hippies - and he's exactly the sort of RAND corp fellow traveller i was talking about earlier, the decentralised hippy-libertarian Military-network crossover. (See Jodi dean and others on the New Communalists).

 

[Meltingpot]

I was arguing in the philosophy forum about how daft left and right wing are as labels sometimes. I would argue that the crusties and so on in the UK were apolitical, there was a communal philosophy, but it was not communist

The whole hippy idea of 'dropping out' and so on is bourgeoise as it still depends on a working class to support it, it still depends on having a capitalist society to drop out of. Not that it doesn't have it's merits, but it's more like an evolution of capitalism than a challenge to it

Google is a good example of right wing hippy philosophy, for a cultural one the obvious example is hippy preacher Bill Hicks

Bill Hicks right wing? He was pretty much an anarchist.

 

[Idaho]

It's just Idaho blundering in not having read the thread as per normal. There's been very little discussion of hippies on the thread frankly, it's mostly been discussion of zeigeist and modern day consipraloons - and no one doing what he suggests.

Don't get cross sweetpea. I am responding to those on the thread who want to turn what could be an interesting discussion into single sentences that could be neatly daubed on their punk-rock t-shirts.

 

[butchersapron]

Bill Hicks right wing? He was pretty much an anarchist.

In what sense?

 

[butchersapron]

Don't get cross sweetpea. I am responding to those on the thread who want to turn what could be an interesting discussion into single sentences that could be neatly daubed on their punk-rock t-shirts.

The ones in your head then.

 

[DotCommunist]

because he said mocking things about marketing, apparently.

 

[Meltingpot]

Hippies were about all kinds of shit - there's very few definitive views that can be placed across the heads of them all. But the fact that some right-wing loons were not hippies is not at all evidence that there wasn't a strain of right-wing loonery running through many sections of general hippy milieu. This is pretty well established fact through thousands of autobiographies, cultural histories and so on.

Edit: and there's nothing whatsoever to say that communitarianism cannot be right wing - it's more recent explicit political expression was pretty far right - Etzioni/Blair/Third way etc

Butch if you know anything about Etzioni, you win.

 

[TruXta]

Bill Hicks, anarchist? Nah. Hedonist pure and simple.

 

[frogwoman]

I think that we could say that individualism and progression through some kind of self-awareness/retreat into self is possibly a unifying hippy ideal. Although I am not sure how far you could go with that. It's certainly a rejection of paternalist influences and previous beliefs or strictures. I can see why conventional leftists would be affronted with the rejection of marxist doctrine.

Hippism as middle class is perhaps more of a UK thing than a US one. In the US it was a rejection of the 1950s suburban post-war culture and the authority structures around that. Here in the UK it was more just a fringe of middle class drug users talking balls.

it's not about people being "affronted".I'm just saying that, to me, the idea of dropping out of society, and going off for months/years to do loads of drugs in some van (I'm not saying all hippies did this, and i was born in 1988, so i might have a bit of a prejudiced view) and the idealisation of these "inner forms of consciousness" as distinct from the masses who did not have these "cosmic experiences", i don't think that this can necessarily be considered right-wing but it certainly isn't anything left wing in the traditional sense.

i've always found the idea of "movements" which are based on separating yourself from the rest of society rather than rying to change it a bit suspect tbh, but maybe it's just me.

 

[Meltingpot]

In what sense?

His humour (from what little I know of it) was about freeing people from oppression by getting them to laugh at it. He was very anti the first Gulf War as well (he died before the second).

 

[crusty bloomer]

If you watch that film Bill Hicks made about Waco he's much more Glenn Beck than Emma Goldman

I used to like him because he was very good at ripping on conservatives but I think it's a bit 'enemy of my enemy'. As an adult I don't even find him funny, he just shouts a lot.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thanks for the info wrt Ferlinghetti, but if being a hippy was purely about being a right wing reactionary General Patton would have been a hippy, which is clearly ludicrous.

Well exactly. It's a ludicrous concept.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

This is pretty well established fact through thousands of autobiographies, cultural histories and so on.

Have you read thousands of autobiographies of ex-hippies?