Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Meloni's adopted the broader EU position but her base is firmly anti-Ukraine war, as is most of Italy in fact. Le Pen is so pro-Putin she's regularly accused of being his agent.
Farage is right about NATO. Sorry
- Thread starter Protag
- Start date
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I wouldn’t be surprised about any low actions by politicians but what do you base your view on?
It would fuck him surely to be proven to have taken Putins cash? Certainly if it was recent.
Silas Loom
Advanced. Forthright. Signifficant.
If you just want a money trail, his paid appearances on Russia Today would suffice.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Meloni increased her vote share in the EU elections despite this apparent base . Meloni's foreign policy regarding Ukraine/Russia sanctions against Russia. no negotiations unless Russia withdraws and ceases hostilities, support for Ukraine joining NATO and the EU,
The Meloni and Le Pen are in different groupings in the EU .
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
As the partner of a teacher I can testify to the truth of this.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Generally I don't tend to think people vote based on foreign policy unless it's something they can connect directly to their own lives - hell Labour didn't even lose in 2005 despite launching probably the most unpopular foreign war in modern history. I think Meloni knows this, which is why she's able to leverage a pro-Ukraine position into respect within EU institutions without actually risking all that much. And I didn't actually say Farage was trying to appeal to Meloni or Le Pen specifically (I am well aware they lead different far-right groupings, which is why I mentioned both of them), I said he was nodding to far-right trends in Europe and the US.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
All I'm pointing out tbh is that 'also nodding into the far-right trends both in the EU and US, which have been very much Putin-sympathetic' is open to some discussion. Even more so now you have said that generally, people don't vote based on foreign policy. I do think that your earlier suggestion about whether there is a UK minding its own business demographic is a very interesting one.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
It’s a bit limp. No smoking gun etc. I was hoping for consultancy payments and bags of cash handed over in london parks.
Silas Loom
Advanced. Forthright. Signifficant.
I would be utterly unsurprised if there were such things, but the fact that Farage is already on record as a paid mouthpiece of the Russian state is quite handy for anyone who doesn’t want to be sued for calling him a bought and paid for Putinist shill.
ska invita
back on the other side
This is they key thing....what has been the Wests response to the collapse of the Soviet Union up to now? My summary understanding is:
-US agrees to a mutual disarmament programme with Gorbachev....instead US increases its armament programme
-US leads the way for Russia to sell its state assets and create an oligarch class, so the West can have "people we can deal with".
-conscious attempt to integrate Russia into the US-led globalised capitalist system, keep the people up top sweet and well paid, but with the view that Russia will now be a periphery weak state and market.
-the West increasingly spreads its tentacles into the former eastern european ex-soviet states
-Putin increasingly gets ideas above his station on Russia's borders, but as its in non-strategic areas its not a problem...the "feltching" from the West goes on with barely a bat of an eye.
But now with Ukraine everything changes as its a contested space on the chess board
Gromit
International Man of Misery
I did wonder if I'd get get editor into trouble by suggesting that Farage was paid directly or indirectly by Russia to spout anti-nato stuff... and so didn't do it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Nowadays it's bitcoin
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Well he's got the far-right tory plus the actual fash votes all sewn up, a fair showing of apolitical conspiraloons in his corner, maybe he's after reaching for some red-brown alienated-from-labour lefties who might hate him but hate galloway even more.
Silas Loom
Advanced. Forthright. Signifficant.
Anecdote.
Ten years ago, I worked in a market intelligence vendor which had a deeply crappy suite of defence reports, Janes at half the price and a tenth of the accuracy. Not part of my division, but I was the most senior person available when an oddster from the Russian embassy turned up, wanting to buy that year’s output of reports while insisting on paying in cash from a suitcase. For hard copies. I fobbed him off, but apparently someone else had fewer scruples and let the deal go through.
Point of the anecdote: use of cash for overseas operational needs seems to be their custom even outside of covert contexts, and when it’s really weird and unusual to do so.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Bloody Hell. Clacton must be a mirror of Cheadlehighstreet .
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I joined here in 2006. I've been a clown spouting anti-NATO shite right from the start, fwiw.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You'd hope this would be so obvious it didn't need stating. But perhaps not.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
“The birds will be flying high tomorrow.”
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think we can all agree on the clown bit
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What is the point of you? You ever reflected on that, Colin Robinson?
WouldBe
Dislicksick
It's not like the west has invaded those countries, they were free to choose wether to side/join the west/EU or not.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
A key problem for the west is that one it/we can’t kick over the Russian empire too decisively because a. Nukes and b. The fear that a failed state(s) where the Risian empire was would make Iraq look like Switzerland , plus nukes.
I mean there is little doubt that with all the shiny toys you consistently point out third rate people like me fetishise the Russian state could be broken beyond repair in about 10 days. The problem is we//they it would have no idea what to do next. Plus nuclear weapons.
I am unsure. Farage denies it, and says he just received a couple of appearance fees for Russia Today. But even that is a bit dodgy, frankly.
Fact check: did Farage get £548,000 from Russia?
Chris Bryant has been keen to make the most of the Ukraine crisis, demanding greater sanctions on Putin’s cronies at every turn. The Labour MP scored an early hit when he used parliamentary privilege to reveal that Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich was identified by the Home Office in 2019 as...
www.spectator.co.uk
Nigel Farage hits back at claims he accepted more than half a million pounds from Russia: 'Nonsense' - CityAM
Former UKIP and Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage has called suggestions that he received hundreds of thousands of pounds from the Russian state “nonsense”. Labour MP Chris Bryant told a parliamentary debate that he wanted to “point out” payments for Mr Farage amounting to almost £550,000, which...
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Carol Codswallop had a view on that…
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Colin Robinson has gone over my head but I’m sure there is a point.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
Probably not you I'm talking about then, but by all means give yourself a fucking medal just the same.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
Trouble is the current strategy of containing Putin as best we can while patiently waiting for him to die probably ends up with failed state plus nukes anyway. I don't think there's a relatively sane, relatively competent Khrushchev-type figure waiting in the wings to take over. If there was Putin would've had him defenestrated long ago.
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