New Labour government - legislative agenda

[mentalchik]

Am sick of this constant propoganda being pushed that pensioners are all rich...in five and a half years i'll be a pensioner....don't have any private pensions etc so will be totally dependant on the state pension...have no assests...i was assuming i will probably have to keep working past retirement age but recents events with my physical health (spent all my working life on my feet, it has started to take it's toll) are now throwing that into question....having had a gap where i looked after my kids when they were young and then becoming divorced i have never earnt enough money to put away for a pension. I am already trying to keep costs down, haven't had my heating on at all since last October, hopefully i will be able to do that for the near future.

 

[teqniq]

Well this is all just going swimmingly:

Charities demand to meet UK ministers as 1.6m disabled OAPs set to lose winter fuel payments

Call comes after government forced to reveal that 71% of pensioners with disabilities will lose entitlement despite dependence on warmer homes

www.theguardian.com

 

[The39thStep]

Well this is all just going swimmingly:

Charities demand to meet UK ministers as 1.6m disabled OAPs set to lose winter fuel payments

Call comes after government forced to reveal that 71% of pensioners with disabilities will lose entitlement despite dependence on warmer homes

www.theguardian.com

bitter ideologues

 

[Smokeandsteam]

bitter ideologues

Indeed. Us Urban readers already know that these disabled pensioners are all millionaires and simply piss up the wall the bribe given to them by that Tory Gordon Brown that Rachel Reeves has now bravely taken away. We also know that these pensioners raked it in when they were younger before have the temerity to get disabled after that.

Scope claims that ‘“Since the cost of living crisis, Scope’s helpline has heard from disabled people who are cutting back on everything they can. Going without heating, forgoing medical treatment. Sacrifices that put their health at risk.”

These lies prove that Scope are embittered Corbyn supporters, refusing to wait for the budget and getting all angry just coz a few pensioners must die for the “economic mission”..

 

[xenon]

Has anyone said that or is this just a preliminary shot across the bows in case anyone was thinking of saying that?

Latter. It looked like it could be going that way. I.e. Labour voters, this is your fault.

 

[redsquirrel]

Personally I don't subscribe to the notion that voting = endorsement.
But if one holds voting = endorsement (or responsibility) then that applies to all parties/governments.

Those the hold all Tory/Reform/Trump voters are endorsing the whole platform and being responsible for the actions of those governments - but which don't apply the same to Labour, the LDs, SNP, etc are just hypocrites.

 

[two sheds]

For me, it's the media that causes people to vote tory/reform/trump. If you're exposed to the Mail/Telegraph/Express/Fox the whole time then what else are you going to vote?

Those that hold that Labour voters should be ashamed at voting in the last election but don't feel the least bit ashamed at not voting or voting "spunking cock" are hypocrites because they would seem to have been perfectly comfortable with another 4 years of a tory government that is lurching to the far right.

And don't get me started on a Brexit that was quite clearly going to be implemented by a tory government.

So Smokeandsteam can you stop with this shit please?

 

[The39thStep]

Latter. It looked like it could be going that way. I.e. Labour voters, this is your fault.

I must say that my family and friends in the UK , of whom most voted Labour albeit with varying levels of cynicism, are totally aghast at the WTF decision.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

For me, it's the media that causes people to vote tory/reform/trump. If you're exposed to the Mail/Telegraph/Express/Fox the whole time then what else are you going to vote?

Presumably, in contrast, those voting Labour are better informed and knew what they were voting for?

Those that hold that Labour voters should be ashamed at voting in the last election but don't feel the least bit ashamed at not voting or voting "spunking cock" are hypocrites because they would seem to have been perfectly comfortable with another tory government that is lurching to the far ridht.

There is something of a problem here. The problem is the assumption that somehow voting Labour is a) better than voting Tory or not voting at all but the evidence is that it isn’t true and that Labour are fucking scum and b) the other problem is the assumption that those of us who have simply given up on parliamentary politics and see no value in participating in it are wrong. I think the opposite is the case and that passively voting for scum every 5 years is at best a waste of time.

And don't get me started on a Brexit that was quite clearly going to be implemented by a tory government.

So Smokeandsteam can you stop with this shit please?

Leaving aside people like Silas Loon who actually support the Starmer Project, Labour voters on here have argued either a) that Labour are ‘less bad’ than the Tories or b) will move left once in power. There is no evidence that either is true. In fact, in power Labour appears to be as bad as it promised it would be in opposition. Given that - and your view that unlike the ‘sheeple’ who vote Tory/Brexit Labour voters know what they are doing - those who voted for the Starmer project should own the consequences of it.

 

[PTK]

All those who voted for Starmer are just as culpable as those who vote Tory and then pretend the decisions they take aren’t on them



Spunking cock.

Then you are just as culpable, because you allowed this government to get elected. You should be ashamed of allowing the Labour Party to come to power.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Then you are just as culpable, because you allowed this government to get elected. You should be ashamed of allowing the Labour Party to come to power.

Hot take.

 

[two sheds]

Presumably, in contrast, those voting Labour are better informed and knew what they were voting for?


There is something of a problem here. The problem is the assumption that somehow voting Labour is a) better than voting Tory or not voting at all but the evidence is that it isn’t true and that Labour are fucking scum and b) the other problem is the assumption that those of us who have simply given up on parliamentary politics and see no value in participating in it are wrong. I think the opposite is the case

Presume what you like. That's not what I said. I understand and respect the views of people who have given up on parliamentary politics and have pretty well done that myself. The reason I haven't yet is because which government is in power has a real effect on peoples' lives. Just look at what Trump is going to do if elected in the US. Would you draw a spunking cock on the voting form if you were in the US? The democrats are further to the right than even labour under starmer. I voted labour holding my nose because I think the alternative of, as I say, a tory party that is lurching further and further right would be worse.

If you don't vote, though, and smugly say that people who did vote a particular way should be ashamed for doing it, then you're a hypocrite.

Leaving aside people like Silas Loon who actually support the Starmer Project, Labour voters on here have argued either a) that Labour are ‘less bad’ than the Tories or b) will move left once in power. There is no evidence that either is true. In fact, in power Labour appears to be as bad as it promised it would be in opposition. Given that - and your view that unlike the ‘sheeple’ who vote Tory/Brexit Labour voters know what they are doing - those who voted for the Starmer project should own the consequences of it.

Who mentioned 'sheeple'? People act on the information they're given. If you've always read a particular paper that that's the information you'll act on.

Given that, and your view that unlike the ‘sheeple’ who vote Labour - those who don't vote know what they are doing - those who don't vote should own the consequences of it. Or be labeled a hypocrite.

Incidentally I know this won't be particularly popular on the site but I've never been all that comfortable with people drawing spunking cocks on their voting forms. I wonder how comfortable some women who count the votes would be with that.

 

[two sheds]

Hot take.

Hypocrite.

 

[redsquirrel]

For me, it's the media that causes people to vote tory/reform/trump. If you're exposed to the Mail/Telegraph/Express/Fox the whole time then what else are you going to vote?

There are all kinds of political problems with this position.
For a start it completely writes over the idea that people's material conditions are key to their politics, which contradicts the whole basis of class politics and socialism.
It also seems to have an underlying assumption that 'left wing' politics are somehow correct or natural and that subject to the correct media people would spontaneously move left.

It is also not supported by empirical evidence or history. There were elections where most Sun readers voted Labour despite the papers endorsement of the Tories. And if the media is the crucial element of forming people's politics why, and how, did socialism, anarchism, etc attract such mass support in its past - the media was as, if not more, hostile then?

EDIT: Nor does it explain the positive support for Corbyn or Sanders - both of which we attacked by the liberal and conservative press, if the media was the dominant factor in deciding people's politics then how did they attract such support when the media was almost universally hostile?

 

[teuchter]

Labour voters on here have argued either a) that Labour are ‘less bad’ than the Tories or b) will move left once in power. There is no evidence that either is true.

Your position is that the Tories are "better or not worse than" Labour - what is the evidence for this?

 

[PTK]

The abolition of the Winter Fuel Allowance is a betrayal of the working class people who voted for the Labour Party at the General Election in July.

The Labour government should be ashamed of this action. However, some people think that it should be the people who were betrayed who should be ashamed.

 

[redsquirrel]

Like I said I don't believe that those that voted Labour are responsible or endorsed this action.

But was it really a betrayal? OK this particular measure was not in the manifesto but the LP had been quite clear about the direction is was going to take - more austerity, more attacks on workers, complete sign up to liberal economics

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Who mentioned 'sheeple'? People act on the information they're given. If you've always read a particular paper that that's the information you'll act on.

Not true. I read the Guardian but I don’t snigger along to public schoolboy James O’Brien, like Carol Voderman’s tweets or listen to the execrable shite pumped out by The Rest is Politics podcast and think it’s some profound insight.

Given that, and your view that unlike the ‘sheeple’ who vote Labour - those who don't vote know what they are doing - those who don't vote should own the consequences of it. Or be labeled a hypocrite.

Most voters in the election voted against the Tories, they did not vote for anyone. I don’t know anyone who rates Starmer. Most people think he’s a pompous, nasally, middle class cunt who intends to make the rest of us as joyless as he is.

But then these people don’t, unlike some on here, think people who vote Tory/Reform/other are nativists who are incapable of independent thought.

Incidentally I know this won't be particularly popular on the site but I've never been all that comfortable with people drawing spunking cocks on their voting forms. I wonder how comfortable some women who count the votes would be with that.

Lol.

 

[PTK]

Like I said I don't believe that those that voted Labour are responsible or endorsed this action.

But was it really a betrayal? OK this particular measure was not in the manifesto but the LP had been quite clear about the direction is was going to take - more austerity, more attacks on workers, complete sign up to liberal economics

The Winter Fuel Allowance was introduced by a government solidly committed to neo-liberalism.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Your position is that the Tories are "better or not worse than" Labour - what is the evidence for this?

For starters, Labour are removing the winter fuel allowance from pensioners.

Labour have committed to not raising income tax or borrowing. So they are embarking on a round of cuts.

Of course govts don't stick rigidly to such promises. They have to bend when their policies, such as 'funding improvements through growth', blow up, like they did eg in 2008. But that's their declared intention. It's positively Trussian.

 

[Serge Forward]

It's true electoralism is a con, a more polite way of getting very minimal "consent" (however uninformed) for the latest political faction of the capitalist class to get through the door at number 10. But I don't see the point of shaming people who voted for the Starmer shite any more than voting for some other faction.

The current system is built on this whole tawdry set up, and in a country where the working class mostly doesn't have even trade union consciousness, it's naive to expect much better than people voting for what appears to be (if one doesn't know any better) the "least worst" option in a (mostly) two--party contest.

You might as well say people should be ashamed of not organising a general strike, building barricades and storming the seats of power.

If we want to see meaningful change, we have to build for that within the working class. Shaming people for their recent voting choices in the electoral pantomime will not help us to build for any sort of change.

 

[redsquirrel]

The Winter Fuel Allowance was introduced by a government solidly committed to neo-liberalism.

And?
At that point the LP was not promising austerity. In 2024 it quite clearly ran on the basis of austerity, anyone who is radically surprisedly this type of move has either had their head buried in the sand or indulging in some wishful thinking.

Like those that voted LD in 2010 and then shocked when they went into coalition with the Tories.

 

[two sheds]

Not true. I read the Guardian but I don’t snigger along to public schoolboy James O’Brien, like Carol Voderman’s tweets or listen to the execrable shite pumped out by The Rest is Politics podcast and think it’s some profound insight.

You're assuming that tory voters lap up everything they read in the papers? That's the same thing you're accusing me of.

Most voters in the election voted against the Tories, they did not vote for anyone. I don’t know anyone who rates Starmer. Most people think he’s a pompous, nasally, middle class cunt who intends to make the rest of us as joyless as he is.

Indeed. Whereas tory Prime Ministers have all been working class who intend to bring everyone up to enjoy the privileges that they've earned.

But then these people don’t, unlike some on here, think people who vote Tory/Reform/other are nativists who are incapable of independent thought.

You're lying again. Nowhere have I said that.

Lol.

Ah fair enough. Did you just draw a spunking cock or did you affix a photograph of your own spunking cock?

 

[The39thStep]

Can't say I'm a fan of Preston however, this is an interesting explanation that not only opens up more cans of worms. The alibi made up by the onetruepath Starmerites that this was all somehow all part of some egalitarian levelling up based on 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' just doesn't hold up.

 

[PTK]

And?
At that point the LP was not promising austerity. In 2024 it quite clearly ran on the basis of austerity, anyone who is radically surprisedly this type of move has either had their head buried in the sand or indulging in some wishful thinking.

Like those that voted LD in 2010 and then shocked when they went into coalition with the Tories.

You implied that the Labour Party being completely signed up to neo-liberalism was a new thing. I do not recall seeing any posts from you predicting that a Starmer government would abolish the Winter Fuel Allowance.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You implied that the Labour Party being completely signed up to neo-liberalism was a new thing. I do not recall seeing any posts from you predicting that a Starmer government would abolish the Winter Fuel Allowance.

That policy specifically, no. But I posted before the election about the promises re tax and borrowing, which made cuts of some kind or other inevitable. And targeting universalism is entirely within the New Labour playbook when it comes to cuts.

I think it's not productive to have a go at people for voting Labour given that there was no option at the election for anything better. But the evidence that they would be beyond shit was all there. Which is why I didn't really give a shit who won and I was hoping it wouldn't be a landslide.

 

[redsquirrel]

You implied that the Labour Party being completely signed up to neo-liberalism was a new thing.

No I did not

I do not recall seeing any posts from you predicting that a Starmer government would abolish the Winter Fuel Allowance.

Are you even reading what is being posted

"OK this particular measure was not in the manifesto but the LP had been quite clear about the direction is was going to take".

The political position the LP signed up to clearly meant that attacks on workers were going t happen - both Reeves and Starmer consistently made this a point of pride (and have continued to do so) 'we're not afraid of taking the tough decisions".

I can understand people voting Labour as the lesser evil but I don't think anyone who voted Labour can seriously claim this is a betrayal.

 

[PTK]

No I did not

Are you even reading what is being posted

The political position the LP signed up to clearly meant that attacks on workers were going t happen - both Reeves and Starmer consistently made this a point of pride (and have continued to do so) 'we're not afraid of taking the tough decisions".

I can understand people voting Labour as the lesser evil but I don't think anyone who voted Labour can seriously claim this is a betrayal.

So, you did not predict that they would cut the Winter Fuel Allowance.

 

[redsquirrel]

I, like many, many others - including such radical communists such as the IFS - predicted the LP would attack workers.

 

[teuchter]

For starters, Labour are removing the winter fuel allowance from pensioners.

Labour have committed to not raising income tax or borrowing. So they are embarking on a round of cuts.

Of course govts don't stick rigidly to such promises. They have to bend when their policies, such as 'funding improvements through growth', blow up, like they did eg in 2008. But that's their declared intention. It's positively Trussian.

What was the better alternative that was on offer from the Tories?