New age cosmic hippies and the far right

[elbows]

Surrender yourself to a higher power, be a tool through which these just forces can flow, a new era is upon us, etc. Rewire the energy that should pass through your genitals so that it passes some other way, a way that never quite scratches the itch, and channel your frustrations in some horrific direction. Make order out of chaos, a simple lie out of complex truths. All reason drowned in a sea of symbolism. Cure cynicism by surrendering your critical faculties to new lies. I saw Goody Proctor with the devil. I look for hope in all the wrong places, Turn off, tune out, drop your defences and renew your inner being with a fun new charade that all the kids will love. I am Bernard of Borg and I have a magic hat, I think my faith sustains me even as it drains me.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

If it barks like a dog, walks like a dog, it's not a duck no matter how much you wish Tabitha.

Are you actually familiar with the works of Freeman Fly or just going by conjecture?

 

[TruXta]

I do agree. All that and the elevation of 'feeling,' instinct and 'awareness' above rational thought, and the emphasis on immediate gratification of all desire. That isn't to say that hippies and fascists are identical, nor that your average New Age type wouldn't be repelled by your average racist/fascist buffoon, but Houellebecq's idea of Manson as the inevitable outcome of following the hippy ideal to its logical conclusion is worth thinking about.

The enlightened/ignorant binary is equally characteristic of the left IME, but is of course applicable to some New Age lines of thought as well. The "emphasis on immediate gratification of all desire" sounds very far removed from the whole flower power stuff inasmuch as that emphasised a less materialistic and more spiritual way of life. Examples would help, if you've got any handy.

A broader question - what counts as hippies for the purposes of this thread? I know a few people who are well into their High Woo, but they're most certainly not unthinking nor uncritical, neither of their own nor other people's ideas, feelings and actions.

 

[LLETSA]

The enlightened/ignorant binary is equally characteristic of the left IME, but is of course applicable to some New Age lines of thought as well. The "emphasis on immediate gratification of all desire" sounds very far removed from the whole flower power stuff inasmuch as that emphasised a less materialistic and more spiritual way of life. Examples would help, if you've got any handy.

A broader question - what counts as hippies for the purposes of this thread? I know a few people who are well into their High Woo, but they're most certainly not unthinking nor uncritical, neither of their own nor other people's ideas, feelings and actions.

Why is 'flower power' or a 'more spiritual way of life' (what does this actually mean?) far removed from the emphasis on immediate gratification? It's true that the hippy thing contained people of all kinds of backgrounds and outlooks, but the very fact that it involved 'dropping out ' of mainstream society shows an emphasis on immediate gratification of desire, and the abdication of responsibility, as primary motives. (I'm talking about real hippies here, not those white dreadlock types who do normal jobs and live in normal houses and think they're hippies because they've got a bong, a wacky van outside and those fucking smiley sun things on the kitchen wall.) For all its anti-materialism, there was always a strong entrepreneurial streak to it, culminating in the former hippie tycoon and the introduction of all sorts of New Age piffle into business management theory etc.

As I said, I'm not saying that hippies are to be equated with fascists, but that the half-baked mysticism, the emphasis on 'awareness' and supposed enlightenment and the appeal to gurus and leaders is what they have in common. It isn't surprising that if you follow an 'anything goes' philosophy to its ultimate conclusion you can end up with Manson. Look at the number of communes and cults that quickly became tyrannies.

 

[LLETSA]

Another thing is that hippies, like everybody else, were affected by the wider culture, which was in the hippy heyday more collectivist than nowadays, in spirit as well as in practice, with rising living standards an aid in 'dropping out' (not to mention the money they got from their unprecedentedly prosperous parents.) It will be interesting to see that as the cult of the individual continues to gain ground over collectivist ideas and living standards in the West plummet, as they have started to do, whether the hippy/New Age movement continues to be as fluffy. As has been emphasised in this thread, there have already been some dubious directions taken.

 

[Deareg]

Funny how a lot of these new age cosmic types espouse extreme right wing ideas under the guise of peace and love innit? There's loads of 'em all over the Occupy Facebook pages.

There's one called "Quintessence Healer",who says they are "Here to help the earth as a Light Worker, which i like to call Gaia Consiousness.", yet has this to say about immigrants "What rights do you serve when you dont even Belong here, You only care about your own Countries.... Your all Scum. And you know what your doing.... Your here to try and Push the U.K Population Out of Work......".

It's often these types pushing the anti-Jewish stuff too.

The right have made a habit of adopting or just jumping on the bandwagon when it comes to leftwing causes or ideas, this might be another instance of that.

 

[frogwoman]

as lletsa says,these guys arent necessarily left wing.

 

[Blagsta]

Are you actually familiar with the works of Freeman Fly or just going by conjecture?

Well he repeats the lie about Obama's birth cert and believes 9/11 was "an inside job". He also believes in chemtrails, the man is a grade A nut. Exactly the type of nut I'm on about.

 

[TruXta]

Why is 'flower power' or a 'more spiritual way of life' (what does this actually mean?) far removed from the emphasis on immediate gratification? It's true that the hippy thing contained people of all kinds of backgrounds and outlooks, but the very fact that it involved 'dropping out ' of mainstream society shows an emphasis on immediate gratification of desire, and the abdication of responsibility, as primary motives. (I'm talking about real hippies here, not those white dreadlock types who do normal jobs and live in normal houses and think they're hippies because they've got a bong, a wacky van outside and those fucking smiley sun things on the kitchen wall.) For all its anti-materialism, there was always a strong entrepreneurial streak to it, culminating in the former hippie tycoon and the introduction of all sorts of New Age piffle into business management theory etc.

As I said, I'm not saying that hippies are to be equated with fascists, but that the half-baked mysticism, the emphasis on 'awareness' and supposed enlightenment and the appeal to gurus and leaders is what they have in common. It isn't surprising that if you follow an 'anything goes' philosophy to its ultimate conclusion you can end up with Manson. Look at the number of communes and cults that quickly became tyrannies.

Hmmmm. I'm not entirely convinced that the counter-culture, as in "drop out" etc., was an abdication of responsibility. IME the hippies of that era were equally concerned with sustainable development, leftie politics, civil rights and alternative economic arrangements alongside mysticism, "Eastern" philosophies and the occult. Wouldn't really call that an abdication of responsibility overall. And while the dark side you describe is undoubtedly real, I have a strong sense that it was a minority who went down that route. The hippie tycoon is a rare beast, unless you include everyone who was between 16-30 at the time.

 

[TruXta]

Another thing is that hippies, like everybody else, were affected by the wider culture, which was in the hippy heyday more collectivist than nowadays, in spirit as well as in practice, with rising living standards an aid in 'dropping out' (not to mention the money they got from their unprecedentedly prosperous parents.) It will be interesting to see that as the cult of the individual continues to gain ground over collectivist ideas and living standards in the West plummet, as they have started to do, whether the hippy/New Age movement continues to be as fluffy. As has been emphasised in this thread, there have already been some dubious directions taken.

But that streak of individualism and hedonism you describe has always been there in one form or the other. From devil-worshippers in Biblical times to the yummy mummy Tory Reiki gurus of today.

 

[elbows]

The hippie tycoon is a rare beast, unless you include everyone who was between 16-30 at the time.

I wouldn't go quite that far. There are quite a number of examples, but Im sure this is partially skewed by the fact that those who were the most prominent (e.g. visible in the media) were more likely to aspire to becoming rather visible entrepreneurs. Especially given the US attitude towards entrepreneurial tendencies, and the locations in the US where this stuff got quite big, and other shifts later such as the birth of Silicon valley. Throw in certain weaknesses of such ideologies, such as the ease to which they can be corrupted by simpy ageing beyond youth, and the gradual accumulation of property and desire to protect these gains and provide for family, and trouble seems inevitable. Especially when fuelled by a sense that the old rulebook no longer applies, which can rather conveniently be used to justify all manner of selfish behaviours. A vaguely similar thing was seen with the blogosphere far more recently, where some goofs considered that all journalistic ethics could be cast to one side and should not apply to them, as if the mere fact that these bloggers were individual non-corporate types was a guarantee of better ethics.

As usual with rather broad labels, there are problems when trying to describe hippies as one force. Specifics are better. Its probably easier to make a straightforward case when talking about the yippies for example. Jerry Rubins voyage from counter-culture prankster to stockbroker, from yippie to yuppie, being a classic example.

 

[LLETSA]

But that streak of individualism and hedonism you describe has always been there in one form or the other. From devil-worshippers in Biblical times to the yummy mummy Tory Reiki gurus of today.

So?

 

[TruXta]

So?

So it's less to do with recent formations of capital and more to do with deeper tendencies of human thinking, feeling and behaviour. Put very generally

 

[LLETSA]

Hmmmm. I'm not entirely convinced that the counter-culture, as in "drop out" etc., was an abdication of responsibility. IME the hippies of that era were equally concerned with sustainable development, leftie politics, civil rights and alternative economic arrangements alongside mysticism, "Eastern" philosophies and the occult. Wouldn't really call that an abdication of responsibility overall. And while the dark side you describe is undoubtedly real, I have a strong sense that it was a minority who went down that route. The hippie tycoon is a rare beast, unless you include everyone who was between 16-30 at the time.

What I meant by abdication of responsibility is that it's all very well to drop out when there's always somebody to drive the ambulance, serve in the shops and make the stuff the country needs to fund everything, including the ability of people to go and live in a commune.

I've already said that the fluffiness that prevailed in the hippy heyday was due to the more collectivist culture of the times, and that as that recedes into history, the situation may well change among that milieu.

 

[LLETSA]

So it's less to do with recent formations of capital and more to do with deeper tendencies of human thinking, feeling and behaviour. Put very generally

What 'deeper tendencies' prevail depends very much on cultural factors arising out of the given economic situation, however.

 

[LLETSA]

as lletsa says,these guys arent necessarily left wing.

Hippies are generally regarded as somehow left wing but the kind of stuff that interests them has only been at the fringes of socialism historically. New Age is in no way left wing.

 

[Fedayn]

What I meant by abdication of responsibility is that it's all very well to drop out when there's always somebody to drive the ambulance, serve in the shops and make the stuff the country needs to fund everything, including the ability of people to go and live in a commune.

I've already said that the fluffiness that prevailed in the hippy heyday was due to the more collectivist culture of the times, and that as that recedes into history, the situation may well change among that milieu.

Absolutely.

 

[TruXta]

What 'deeper tendencies' prevail depends very much on cultural factors arising out of the given economic situation, however.

Then why does pretty much the same symbolic and social pattern (dark side of hippies, cults, mysticisms) crop up again and again in very different circumstances? Culture and economics are two sides of a coin, one is not the ultimate cause of the other. Individualism and collectivism are two modes of social and biological/evolutionary organisation, respectively.

 

[LLETSA]

Then why does pretty much the same symbolic and social pattern (dark side of hippies, cults, mysticisms) crop up again and again in very different circumstances? Culture and economics are two sides of a coin, one is not the ultimate cause of the other. Individualism and collectivism are two modes of social and biological/evolutionary organisation, respectively.

Why does the fact that they crop up at different times in different circumstances mean that a specific set of circumstances can't give rise to them?

 

[TruXta]

What I meant by abdication of responsibility is that it's all very well to drop out when there's always somebody to drive the ambulance, serve in the shops and make the stuff the country needs to fund everything, including the ability of people to go and live in a commune.

I've already said that the fluffiness that prevailed in the hippy heyday was due to the more collectivist culture of the times, and that as that recedes into history, the situation may well change among that milieu.

There's no arguing that parts of the counter-culture were no different from the trustafarians and whatnot today, but stop this pretence that this was the sum total of hippie life.

 

[LLETSA]

There's no arguing that parts of the counter-culture were no different from the trustafarians and whatnot today, but stop this pretence that this was the sum total of hippie life.

I haven't. They're not long posts. Try reading them.

 

[TruXta]

Why does the fact that they crop up at different times in different circumstances mean that a specific set of circumstances can't give rise to them?

The traits you hold up as the defining features of hippiedom have featured in very different times and places. It follows from your own logic that a specific set of circumstances (i.e. post-war West types of socioeconomic organization) cannot account for this fact. Unless you want to argue that Biblical times were capitalist.

 

[TruXta]

I haven't. They're not long posts. Try reading them.

I have. You said that real hippies were leeching fascistoid murderers. Only slightly hyperbolic.

 

[LLETSA]

The traits you hold up as the defining features of hippiedom have featured in very different times and places. It follows from your own logic that a specific set of circumstances (i.e. post-war West types of socioeconomic organization) cannot account for this fact. Unless you want to argue that Biblical times were capitalist.

They can account for the rise of the latest wave of these particular traits.

I think you're just annoyed at hippies being criticised. Were you/your mum and dad hippies?

 

[Pickman's model]

as lletsa says,these guys arent necessarily left wing.

that is indeed a startling and novel analysis

 

[LLETSA]

I have. You said that real hippies were leeching fascistoid murderers. Only slightly hyperbolic.

This is what I mean. What's wrong with you?

 

[LLETSA]

that is indeed a startling and novel analysis

Here's the derailer. He always gets a sugar rush round about this time.

 

[TruXta]

They can account for the rise of the latest wave of these particular traits.

I think you're just annoyed at hippies being criticised. Were you/your mum and dad hippies?

A very partial account, IMO. And no, my parents fucking hate hippies! Anyway, I'm not aching for a bunfight, so I'll leave it at that. Agree to disagree and all that shit.

 

[Pickman's model]

Here's the derailer. He always gets a sugar rush round about this time.

i've said my say, you're neither original nor particularly interesting. if you want to encourage a derail, please don't affect to be offended if it happens.

 

[LLETSA]

you lose the argument as soon as you attack the person rather than the point.

Good, I've lost. Off you fuck.