New age cosmic hippies and the far right

[Johnny Canuck3]

Ermmm, most social histories of hippy that I have read acknowledge its roots in rebelling against suburban consumerist conformity. I'll take their analysis over a known contrarian on a bulletin board.

I'm not disagreeing with the contention that hippies were rebelling against suburban conformity. I was disagreeing with your contention that north american hippies were mostly middle class university students.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No, it means what it says in that quote from Kunstler and what others have mentioned-that 'dropping out' was dependent on there being a fully functioning industrial society to fall back on, run by people who didn't have the option of 'dropping out.'

It's pretty difficult to totally drop out of the surrounding society, and as I said earlier, there are parts of society, like medicine etc, that it would be foolish to try to drop out of. They had a desire to transform society, but of necessity, the first steps of that transformation will take place within the confines of the old society.

 

[LLETSA]

It's pretty difficult to totally drop out of the surrounding society, and as I said earlier, there are parts of society, like medicine etc, that it would be foolish to try to drop out of. They had a desire to transform society, but of necessity, the first steps of that transformation will take place within the confines of the old society.

Short of colonising another planet, that would have to be the case, yes. But the inescapable point is that people can only 'drop out' when there is always somebody else, who doesn't have that option, to be appealed to when the going gets tough and to clear up the shit they leave behind. Money from the 'bastard' parents was always a help for many, too.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Not sure about Jan Mrydal, but naive fool Gunnar Bergstrom (wearing the PLA field cap) publicly repented a few years ago, donating all of his materials (photographs of his visit to the country etc) to the Documentation Centre of Cambodia.

Audio documentary on this theme from Sverige Radio:

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3297&artikel=2443452

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

people can only 'drop out' when there is always somebody else, who doesn't have that option, to be appealed to when the going gets tough and to clear up the shit they leave behind. Money from the 'bastard' parents was always a help for many, too.

Your conclusion seems to be that hippies are moral failures or whatever because they espoused utopian ideals, yet were unable to create a society out in the woods or whatever, and cut off all connections with the larger society.

As I said before, you seem to be castigating them for trying to create something better, but failing at the attempt.

 

[Meltingpot]

The Weather Underground were a species or subset of 'hippies', in the same way that Stalinists and Trotskyites are subsets of communists.

They were, and Bill Ayers said recently that he and his now partner Bernardine Dohrn were a "pair of old hippies".

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They were, and Bill Ayers said recently that he and his now partner Bernardine Dohrn were a "pair of old hippies".

Of course they were, as were all of the Chicago Seven.

 

[butchersapron]

Well given they weren't part of Chicago 7 (and i don't think the 8th accused - Bobby Searle - could ever be accused of being a hippy) and that they could only be talking about their views today..when they're pals of Obama and the Democrat party bigwigs... you know right-wingers then i don't see how this helps to prove the case that the weather underground was both unambiguously hippy and unambiguously left-wing at all. Especially when you consider that Bernardine Dohrn was the living embodiment of the sort of right-wing authoritarianism i mentioned earlier.

Have you a link for this hippies quotes Meltingpot?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well given they weren't part of Chicago 7 (and i don't think the 8th accused - Bobby Searle - could ever be accused of being a hippy) and that they could only be talking about their views today..when they're pals of Obama and the Democrat party bigwigs... you know right-wingers then i don't see how this helps to prove the case that the weather underground was both unambiguously hippy and unambiguously left-wing at all. Especially when you consider that Bernardine Dohrn was the living embodiment of the sort of right-wing authoritarianism i mentioned earlier.

Have you a link for this hippies quotes Meltingpot?

Bobby Seale.
Bobby Searle would be someone else.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well given they weren't part of Chicago 7 (and i don't think the 8th accused - Bobby Searle - could ever be accused of being a hippy)

Why not: because he's black?

 

[butchersapron]

Bobby Seale.
Bobby Searle would be someone else.

Thanks for that post pointing out that i had a letter wrong.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thanks for that post pointing out that i had a letter wrong.

Fair enough. I have to assume that after reading those thousands of reviews, that you'd have a passing knowledge of Bobby Seale.

 

[butchersapron]

Why not: because he's black?

Yes, because he's black. Nothing to with his political views, his role,in setting up the Black Panther Party, a party decidedly at odds with and that often didn't bother concealing its utter contempt for hippy culture. But because he's black.

 

[Blagsta]

I'm not disagreeing with the contention that hippies were rebelling against suburban conformity. I was disagreeing with your contention that north american hippies were mostly middle class university students.

Ahhh, you're disagreeing with something I didn't say. Plus ça change!

 

[butchersapron]

Fair enough. I have to assume that after reading those thousands of reviews, that you'd have a passing knowledge of Bobby Seale.

I do, and pointing out a misspelling of his name doesn't diminish it at all. It does though allow you to glide over the points i made highlighting yet another problem with your attempt to use the weather underground as examples of unambiguous hippydom and unambiguous leftism.

You'll note that i didn't attempt to use your inaccuracy on matter of fact (not spelling) over the Chicago 7 to avoid dealing with your post or to suggest that you somehow didn't have a working knowledge of what you were talking about.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, because he's black. Nothing to with his political views, his role,in setting up the Black Panther Party, a party decidedly at odds with and that often didn't bother concealing its utter contempt for hippy culture. But because he's black.

His political views, and the views of the Panthers, were not much at odds with the views of groups like the Weathermen.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Ahhh, you're disagreeing with something I didn't say. Plus ça change!

Yours, at #242:

It was in large part a reaction to consumerist suburbia, with a large student element.

 

[butchersapron]

His political views, and the views of the Panthers, were not much at odds with the views of groups like the Weathermen.

Thereby adding further evidence for the view that they were not unambiguously hippies. This is very poor. Very poor indeed.

 

[Blagsta]

Yours, at #242:

You're doing it again.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I do, and pointing out a misspelling of his name doesn't diminish it at all. It does though allow you to glide over the points i made highlighting yet another problem with your attempt to use the weather underground as examples of unambiguous hippydom and unambiguous leftism.

You'll note that i didn't attempt to use your inaccuracy on matter of fact (not spelling) over the Chicago 7 to avoid dealing with your post or to suggest that you somehow didn't have a working knowledge of what you were talking about.

What inaccuracy? What started as the Chicago 8 became the Chicago 7 when the Seale trial was hived off away from that of the rest.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thereby adding further evidence for the view that they were not unambiguously hippies. This is very poor. Very poor indeed.

What is the difference between an 'ambiguous' hippie, and an 'unambiguous' hippie?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You're doing it again.

"with a large student element."

 

[butchersapron]

What inaccuracy? What started as the Chicago 8 became the Chicago 7 when the Seale trial was hived off away from that of the rest.

The one where Ayers and Dohrn were part of the Chicago 7.

 

[Blagsta]

"with a large student element."

Yes, I know what I wrote. Dullard.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The one where Ayers and Dohrn were part of the Chicago 7.

Yes: I looked back at my post: bad wording on my part.

 

[butchersapron]

What is the difference between an 'ambiguous' hippie, and an 'unambiguous' hippie?

All the little tricks coming out now eh?

Why did you choose the weather underground as an example of hippydom? Did you think they might not be?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, I know what I wrote. Dullard.

And that part that you wrote: that's the part I disagree with.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes: I looked back at my post: bad wording on my part.

Yet, as i said earlier, i didn't try to do what you attempted over a matter of a single letter being added to a surname did i? And why not? because i'm not floundering and being drawn down into a bog made out of my own examples, not trying to desperately turn this debate into something else to get out of it. (See also your pathetic attempt at racialising my earlier post). Someone here is though.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

All the little tricks coming out now eh?

Why did you choose the weather underground as an example of hippydom? Did you think they might not be?

To put what I've said more accurately: 'hippie' cannot be easily pigeonholed into a buzz phrase like right wing/reactionary. As with any large movment of people, there were varying views, disagreements etc. I used the example of Trotskyites and Stalinists both falling under the rubric 'communist'.

It was therefore the case that within the appelation 'hippie', you could find pacifists, and also those who preached active subversion and armed revolution.

 

[Blagsta]

And that part that you wrote: that's the part I disagree with.

I didn't say what you allege I said. Your comprehension skills are somewhat lacking.