'Needle spiking' in UK nightclubs wtf?

[not henry]

You brought the report to the thread with no evaluation of its validity, and your post seemed to present it as fact.

I would have thought that a piece of statistical analysis that flies in the face of so many people’s lived experience, and common sense, would automatically provoke you to ask questions. It apparently didn’t, which suggested to me that you were unaware of the many, well documented ways in which healthcare ignores the concerns of women and their knowledge of their own bodies. So that’s what I suggested, albeit with some frustration- because it is exhausting having to raise awareness of this stuff with men.

The only alternative is that you saw that report, knew that healthcare is structurally misogynist in many ways, but still bought the report because you think it’s actually likely that women are making this stuff up. But I didn’t assume that. And even now your fragility is shitting on the thread, ftr I still don’t think it’s that.

The fact remains that posting that report here without criticism, and saying that drug spiking rarely or never happens, in the face of all those who have experienced it, is offensive.

Who has experienced it?
I thought that was the point of the thread to try and ascertain whether this was a thing

 

[Sue]

Well, I just suggest that sometimes you need to try and find empirical evidence before you swallow the whole moral panic angle.

I'm not saying drink spiking doesn't happen as it clearly does, but sometimes you need to identify how widespread it really is in reality before you get whole swathes of people to alter their behaviour and basically have less fun in their life over a worry that, whilst being devastating if it did happen, is very very unlikely to happen.

Which whole swathes of people need to alter their behaviour out of interest?

Its what moral panic is all about - please see AIDS and Reefer madness.

I have read separate two reports stating that upon testing people that claimed to have been spiked they virtually never have been. (Yeah yeah misogynistic old Drs)

And you do know that rohypnol (for example) is only detectable in the blood for 12 hours or so so it could well have disappeared by the time blood is tested? And that's assuming blood was taken and tested in the first place. And that the victim went to hospital.

 

[spanglechick]

Who has experienced it?
I thought that was the point of the thread to try and ascertain whether this was a thing

We’re talking about drugs being administered in drinks, because that’s what the study D’wards posted was looking for.

 

[not henry]

We’re talking about drugs being administered in drinks, because that’s what the study D’wards posted was looking for.

My bad, I was referring specifically to the needle spiking thread title

 

[Serene]

Goblin-Gove has been in all those Night Clubs. Just sayin`

 

[equationgirl]

As I stated then, i react to the tone and hers was definitely snide and vitriolic

If she responded politely explaining why I was wrong I wouldn't resort to childishness and piss taking

So women have to be polite to be listened to?

I respectfully suggest you take a break from this thread to reflect upon what you're saying and why people are becoming exasperated. Because I am on the train to the exasperation station...

 

[D'wards]

Which whole swathes of people need to alter their behaviour out of interest?

And you do know that rohypnol is only detectable in the blood for 12 hours or so so it could well have disappeared by the time blood is tested? And that's assuming blood was taken and tested in the first place. And that the victim went to hospital.

There are some universities where the female students are boycotting the unions and local bars over this.

My wider point is that we do not live in a crime ridden society, and that the chances of being drugged in a bar and dragged off and raped are still virtually nil statistically.

Still people should protect themselves, but don't let fear of these awful crimes stop you living the life you want to.

 

[D'wards]

So women have to be polite to be listened to?

I respectfully suggest you take a break from this thread to reflect upon what you're saying and WY people are becoming exasperated. Because I am on the train to the exasperation station...

Yes, and men. And non binary

 

[May Kasahara]

As I stated then, i react to the tone and hers was definitely snide and vitriolic

If she responded politely explaining why I was wrong I wouldn't resort to childishness and piss taking

Funny, because I read her post in a completely patient and reasonable tone of voice. Perhaps your fragility filter needs turning down?

 

[equationgirl]

Yes, and men. And non binary

But you weren't talking about people in general. You were talking about women having a polite tone.

That's not a good look.

 

[ouirdeaux]

One third had not been drinking heavily. A third. And yet still felt unwell enough to seek help. No explanation given here.

Where do you get that figure? I can only find that 65% were at least twice over the drink-drive limit.Do you mean that anything less than this amount cannot be considered heavy drinking?

However, of the 20% who had [taken recreational drugs], none of them disclosed this to the doctors, despite being scared enough about being spiked to attend A&E. The study seems to think this is a gotcha. It doesn’t consider that they might have been spiked with recreational drugs.

The recreational drugs mentioned were amphetamine and cocaine. These probably wouldn't be used by someone hoping their victim will lose the will to resist the advances of the scumbag who is spiking the drink.

More to the point, in pretty much all of these reports, people say they must have been spiked by someone, but they have no idea who. Which would imply it's not someone pestering them and trying to get them drunk, but a random doing it for shits and giggles. Now I'm sure that sort of thing has happened -- pretty much everything has -- but is it as common as we're asked to believe? Pretty much all the cases I've come across involve too much alcohol, with or without stimulants, taken voluntarily.

 

[Sue]

There are some universities where the female students are boycotting the unions and local bars over this.

My wider point is that we do not live in a crime ridden society, and that the chances of being drugged in a bar and dragged off and raped are still virtually nil statistically.

Still people should protect themselves, but don't let fear of these awful crimes stop you living the life you want to.

Christ on a bike.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

As I stated then, i react to the tone and hers was definitely snide and vitriolic

If she responded politely explaining why I was wrong I wouldn't resort to childishness and piss taking

So you're doing the same thing you whinged about others doing earlier?

 

[spanglechick]

There are some universities where the female students are boycotting the unions and local bars over this.

My wider point is that we do not live in a crime ridden society, and that the chances of being drugged in a bar and dragged off and raped are still virtually nil statistically.

Still people should protect themselves, but don't let fear of these awful crimes stop you living the life you want to.

The boycott is to try and encourage club and bar proprietors to spend more money on security and other initiatives. It’s anger directed at trying to stop the cunts who do it, not fear directed at ”keeping women safe at home”. Women know very well that home is statistically far more dangerous in terms of male violence than anywhere outside it.

 

[D'wards]

So women have to be polite to be listened to?

I respectfully suggest you take a break from this thread to reflect upon what you're saying and why people are becoming exasperated. Because I am on the train to the exasperation station...

Yeah you're probably right. No one will look back on their life and wish they'd spent more time arguing with strangers on the Internet.
Just started a new book so I'll crack on with that I think

 

[equationgirl]

There are some universities where the female students are boycotting the unions and local bars over this.

My wider point is that we do not live in a crime ridden society, and that the chances of being drugged in a bar and dragged off and raped are still virtually nil statistically.

Still people should protect themselves, but don't let fear of these awful crimes stop you living the life you want to.

I think you mean the chances of a rape CONVICTION are statistically nil. Rape is a common experience for too many women, and you would benefit from reading the thread from a few years where many, many women detailed the experiences they had been put through (leering, catcalling, being harassed or groped, all the way through to being raped).

You might think we're overreacting. Our collective experience as WOMEN tells us we are not.

 

[weepiper]

There are some universities where the female students are boycotting the unions and local bars over this.

My wider point is that we do not live in a crime ridden society, and that the chances of being drugged in a bar and dragged off and raped are still virtually nil statistically.

Still people should protect themselves, but don't let fear of these awful crimes stop you living the life you want to.

Are you fucking mental? Only a man could write this with a straight face. Yes we do, and we (women) have to defend ourselves against the possibility of getting dragged off and raped, like, every fucking day. Just fuck off with your fucking bullshit. Is that polite enough for you? Arsehole.

 

[spanglechick]

Where do you get that figure? I can only find that 65% were at least twice over the drink-drive limit.Do you mean that anything less than this amount cannot be considered heavy drinking?



The recreational drugs mentioned were amphetamine and cocaine. These probably wouldn't be used by someone hoping their victim will lose the will to resist the advances of the scumbag who is spiking the drink.

More to the point, in pretty much all of these reports, people say they must have been spiked by someone, but they have no idea who. Which would imply it's not someone pestering them and trying to get them drunk, but a random doing it for shits and giggles. Now I'm sure that sort of thing has happened -- pretty much everything has -- but is it as common as we're asked to believe? Pretty much all the cases I've come across involve too much alcohol, with or without stimulants, taken voluntarily.

You’ve come across a lot of this?


My one-third hadnt been heavy drinking was direct from the article. Twice the drink drive limit is around four or five pints for an average weight young woman. Seems fair to me to say that below that, someone isn’t very drunk.

Regarding stimulants. People may well spike with them to reduce inhibitions. And people who have been spiked may well feel very unwell. No one says that these women presented with unconsciousness or dissociation.

 

[equationgirl]

Fucks sake now I have THE FEMINIST RAGE and I'm supposed to be thinking about going to bed

 

[not henry]

Are you fucking mental? Only a man could write this with a straight face. Yes we do, and we (women) have to defend ourselves against the possibility of getting dragged off and raped, like, every fucking day. Just fuck off with your fucking bullshit. Is that polite enough for you? Arsehole.

what, did you mean mental in a disabled sort of way

 

[equationgirl]

Even Camilla is appalled:

Camilla warns of culture normalising sexual violence

The Duchess of Cornwall calls for change of culture to stop violence and sexual harassment against women.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[equationgirl]

what, did you mean mental in a disabled sort of way

No, I doubt it. Mental is often used in Scotland like that.

See also: are ye pur radge, Mon?
Or : youse are fucking mental

 

[not henry]

No, I doubt it. Mental is often used in Scotland like that.

See also: are ye our range, Mon?
Or : youse are fucking mental

I am well aware of that as I am Scottish myself. I am also a prolific and extravagant user of vernacular. About 7-8 years ago I used the word cunt on these boards and I had ever so much stick from yourself (and others). I was accused of misogyny and had a fair amount of grief for using a word from the dictionary.
Imagine then my surprise etc. etc. What has changed, the word or you.

 

[ouirdeaux]

You’ve come across a lot of this?

A vast proportion of weekend emergencies involve alcohol or drugs. Most of these aren't anything worse than 'go home, sleep it off'. Some are. Very few of the ones where a group is reporting one of their members being suddenly unwell, therefore spiked, are likely to be as given.

They lie because they want medical treatment, and they're worried that they're going to be judged as feckless drunks or druggies. This is not a good idea. If you're honest about what you've taken, you'll get appropriate treatment faster.

I'd be tending towards out of it on less than four to five pints, even without the coke, but then I'm a lightweight.

 

[Elpenor]

I am well aware of that as I am Scottish myself. I am also a prolific and extravagant user of vernacular. About 7-8 years ago I used the word cunt on these boards and I had ever so much stick from yourself (and others). I was accused of misogyny and had a fair amount of grief for using a word from the dictionary.
Imagine then my surprise etc. etc. What has changed, the word or you.

Impressive to have posted on here 7-8 years ago when you registered in November 2020, so tell how the time machine works?

 

[not henry]

Impressive to have posted on here 7-8 years ago when you registered in November 2020, so tell how the time machine works?

I was a different user 10-12 year ago then I had my mental breakdown so I couldn't remember username or password. When I re-joined the boards in Nov 2020, I messaged the editor and explained all this to him. He didn't mind. Is that enough of an explanation or do you want a doacters line

 

[equationgirl]

I am well aware of that as I am Scottish myself. I am also a prolific and extravagant user of vernacular. About 7-8 years ago I used the word cunt on these boards and I had ever so much stick from yourself (and others). I was accused of misogyny and had a fair amount of grief for using a word from the dictionary.
Imagine then my surprise etc. etc. What has changed, the word or you.

That's funny, your profile says you only joined at the back end of last year. Who did you used to be then?

I expect a) you were saying misogynistic things as I don't jump on people for no reason and b) I'm older, angrier and fed up with a conservative government. All those things make me swear. A. Lot.

Better climb down from your high horse before you fall off.

ETA. Very sorry to hear about your mental breakdown, hope you are better now.

 

[Elpenor]

I was a different user 10-12 year ago then I had my mental breakdown so I couldn't remember username or password. When I re-joined the boards in Nov 2020, I messaged the editor and explained all this to him. He didn't mind. Is that enough of an explanation or do you want a doacters line

Glad you’re feeling better. You can understand the reasons for my post I hope - there are a lot of tedious banned returners who like to stir the pot.

 

[D'wards]

A vast proportion of weekend emergencies involve alcohol or drugs. Most of these aren't anything worse than 'go home, sleep it off'. Some are. Very few of the ones where a group is reporting one of their members being suddenly unwell, therefore spiked, are likely to be as given.

They lie because they want medical treatment, and they're worried that they're going to be judged as feckless drunks or druggies. This is not a good idea. If you're honest about what you've taken, you'll get appropriate treatment faster.

I'd be tending towards out of it on less than four to five pints, even without the coke, but then I'm a lightweight.

I assume you work for NHS, A&E?

If so I tip my trilby to you, must be incredibly stressful at times

 

[D'wards]

Here is the actual study that I posted the article about that got everyone's back up.

You can pour over it and dismiss it if wish. But I can't see how you can go so ballistic about the posting of a study EXACTLY about the subject of the thread

A study of patients presenting to an emergency department having had a “spiked drink”

To assess the scale of drink spiking in our area and identify which drugs are being used to spike drinks and also to assess whether there is a problem with drink spiking in any particular establishment.A prospective study of all patients presenting to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov