Ministers target July 4th for reopening of England’s pubs and restaurants

[Roadkill]

I heard on the grapevine a few days ago that my local has made all its staff redundant. The blokes who run it are the kind who'd do everything they could to avoid that, so it's a really bad sign. I thought with the furlough scheme and the fact they (I believe) own the building outright they'd probably survive, but evidently not. However, the blinds were up for the first time since March when I went by earlier and there's clearly some work going on inside, so perhaps there's hope yet.

I'm going to be pretty cautious about going back to the pub, whether that one or any other. I certainly don't fancy it for the first few evenings, when it'll likely be rammed, but a post-work pint, sitting outside when it's quiet, is probably okay. I'll be keeping a close eye on the local infection figures, though. They're still a bit high round here. And that's why I still think decisions on reopening should be taken at local authority level: infection rates are significantly higher in some parts of the country than others, and moving in different direction, so it would make far more sense for this to be done at local authority level.

 

[elbows]

I think restaurants are different as you can space out tables and do it in a more controlled way.

I randomly watched a few minutes of a Cuomo press conference earlier. It sounds like he is nervous about restaurant indoor table reopening in New York city specifically. I believe the state and the city are at two different phases and the city is supposed to enter a new phase within a week. If I was listening properly then he intends to announce what their decision is about restaurants on Wednesday. He isnt happy about the amount of obvious social distancing violations either.

Oh well, I will continue to use various parts of the USA for clues as to our future, and at least we arent reopening nightclubs.

edit - I found a writeup about their concerns and the possibility of the plan being changed as a result:

Cuomo Says He May Slow NYC Reopening in Phase III; NJ Postpones Indoor Dining Indefinitely

Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Monday he may tweak the Phase III reopening process for New York City as it relates to indoor dining, while New Jersey’s governor said he would postpone that step indefinitely as virus cases surge across the U.S. Both governors, who lead the two hardest-hit COVID states in...

www.nbcnewyork.com

De Blasio too:

De Blasio indicated the same concern about indoor dining in his daily briefing Monday, saying the city was re-examining its rules for that component of Phase III. He pointed to new outbreaks in states from Michigan to California to Texas he says have been tied to specific restaurants and bars as reasons to reevaluate.

"We're at a watershed moment for the city of New York. We have to get it right. We're going to make adjustments all the time and we'll be open to you about when we need to make adjustments," de Blasio said Monday. "But we're also going to be very open about the progress and what we need to do. When we see a problem, like concerns about indoor dining, we have to address it."

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh well, I will continue to use various parts of the USA for clues as to our future, and at least we arent reopening nightclubs.

you'd be better off honing your skills in other forms of divination which may be more apt and accurate than surveilling america for signs as to our prospects

 

[Maggot]

My local is opening on Monday 6th. Seems quite sensible, as it will be less busy and give them a few days to settle in before the weekend rush.

 

[8ball]

My local is opening on Monday 6th. Seems quite sensible, as it will be less busy and give them a few days to settle in before the weekend rush.

My local have posted on Facebook that they won't quite be ready on time.

 

[elbows]

you'd be better off honing your skills in other forms of divination which may be more apt and accurate than surveilling america for signs as to our prospects

Oh I dont know, this nations performance in the pandemic so far fits quite well with the 'atlantic bridge' and cherrypicking some of the worst that the USA has to offer to meld into our own system of what might laughably be called governance.

 

[Supine]

My local have posted on Facebook that they won't quite be ready on time.

My local pub last posted on social media 5 years ago! No idea when they plan to open.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh I dont know, this nations performance in the pandemic so far fits quite well with the 'atlantic bridge' and cherrypicking some of the worst that the USA has to offer to meld into our own system of what might laughably be called governance.

Well we'll see how it goes in NYC. My guess fwiw is that they'll be fine, as the places in Europe that were badly hit and have now opened bars and restaurants are fine. They're suffering from easing anxiety, as is everyone. It seems pretty clear that there's a huge difference between opening things up after a big wave of infection that has calmed right down and opening things up when there's still no real sign that anything is under control, even if current levels are moderate. If anything a lack of easing anxiety is probably more of a sign of trouble ahead.

Despite all the fuck-ups and the 10000s of unnecessary deaths, I think the UK has more in common right now with the rest of Europe than it does with Texas or Florida. I think the likes of NYS and New Jersey have more in common with Europe than they do with certain other US states.

 

[Yossarian]

Michigan, which had one of the longer and stricter lockdowns, reopened bars on June 8 and reported 129 new cases the same day. On June 26, it was back up to 389.

 

[AverageJoe]

My local is operating the usual directives.

• no vertical drinking (so you have to be seated)
• tables two metres apart and customers 1 metre apart.
• table service only
• escorted loo trips
• no loud music or sporting events that will encourage raised voices
• staff to wear masks etc.
• possible screens at the bar

Sounds amazing. I think I'll pass.

I love a drink in a pub and you'll usually find me in one every day but fuck that for a game of soldiers.

 

[Yossarian]

I think the likes of NYS and New Jersey have more in common with Europe than they do with certain other US states.

I haven't had the pleasure of visiting New Jersey but I'm pretty sure the bar scene in Hoboken doesn't revolve around aperitivos at sidewalk cafes.

 

[Johnny Doe]

• no vertical drinking (so you have to be seated)

I've always kept it horizontal, at least late on

 

[AverageJoe]

I've always kept it horizontal, at least late on

It did make me chuckle when I was told that phrase.

"I'm just off out for a spot of vertical drinking". Sounds more acceptable than an afternoon in the pub

 

[elbows]

Well we'll see how it goes in NYC. My guess fwiw is that they'll be fine, as the places in Europe that were badly hit and have now opened bars and restaurants are fine. They're suffering from easing anxiety, as is everyone. It seems pretty clear that there's a huge difference between opening things up after a big wave of infection that has calmed right down and opening things up when there's still no real sign that anything is under control, even if current levels are moderate. If anything a lack of easing anxiety is probably more of a sign of trouble ahead.

Despite all the fuck-ups and the 10000s of unnecessary deaths, I think the UK has more in common right now with the rest of Europe than it does with Texas or Florida. I think the likes of NYS and New Jersey have more in common with Europe than they do with certain other US states.

Its a seductive vision of the future which I do find understandable and plausible, but I am bound to resist its advances until far more time has passed than this. My instincts lean towards the idea that its based on wishful thinking of various sorts more than epidemiological likeliness. Including wishful thinking about how much people will stick to social distancing enough to counter the effects of other things being relaxed, and wishful thinking about what percentage of the population are not at risk of covid infection for currently mysterious reasons. But you know there is a degree of yoyoing in my stance on this, I'll be happy to be wrong about this stuff if thats what the reality turns out to be.

 

[zora]

My local is operating the usual directives.

• no vertical drinking (so you have to be seated)
• tables two metres apart and customers 1 metre apart.
• table service only
• escorted loo trips
• no loud music or sporting events that will encourage raised voices
• staff to wear masks etc.
• possible screens at the bar

Sounds amazing. I think I'll pass.

I love a drink in a pub and you'll usually find me in one every day but fuck that for a game of soldiers.

I am sad for the pub experience, because that really sounds no fun at all, but bloody glad that this is how it is at least supposed to be run, and not anything even more reckless than allowing indoor drinking at all.

Having said that, in recent years I have often used my local pubs as a bit of a home from home, to have a pizza and a beer of a weekday evening and read my book or even have a pint of soda and lime and do some studying in the middle of the day on my day off during the week. At those times it's usually so quiet that I could have probably safely carried this on all the way through these last few months if pubs had been open. Perfectly physical distanced, but I am in no rush whatsoever to even go back to that.

Actually, does anyone know if pubs will still be allowed to carry on with a bit of a take-out operation? I would quite happily spend some money occasionally on some take-away beers to support my favourite pubs, but I don't want to have to actually sit in them!

 

[Johnny Doe]

It did make me chuckle when I was told that phrase.

"I'm just off out for a spot of vertical drinking". Sounds more acceptable than an afternoon in the pub

I'd assume barfolk have a yellow card to warn you when you start diagonal drinking and you get a red at full horizontal

 

[killer b]

My local is operating the usual directives.

• no vertical drinking (so you have to be seated)
• tables two metres apart and customers 1 metre apart.
• table service only
• escorted loo trips
• no loud music or sporting events that will encourage raised voices
• staff to wear masks etc.
• possible screens at the bar

Sounds amazing. I think I'll pass.

I love a drink in a pub and you'll usually find me in one every day but fuck that for a game of soldiers.

escorted toilet trips is a bit awks, but otherwise I can't see why everyone's moaning - what's the problem?

Having to stand, yelling over the music, waiting at the bar and other people crowded too close are all things I don't like very much about pubs...

 

[killer b]

Actually, does anyone know if pubs will still be allowed to carry on with a bit of a take-out operation?

the pubs that have been doing takeout have always been allowed to do takeout - their license will be for on and off the premises. I'd imagine they'll keep it up if there's still demand.

 

[Espresso]

• escorted loo trips

Are the bar staff and waiting staff to be the escorts I wonder, or will they have dedicated toilet monitors.
If Weatherspoons are having those, whoever has that job will be as fit as a butcher's dog by the end of their first shift.

 

[Orang Utan]

Are the bar staff and waiting staff to be the escorts I wonder, or will they have dedicated toilet monitors.
If Weatherspoons are having those, whoever has that job will be as fit as a butcher's dog by the end of their first shift.

are all Wetherspoons required to have bogs in a different postcode or summat?

 

[pesh]

escorted toilet trips is a bit awks, but otherwise I can't see why everyone's moaning - what's the problem?

Having to stand, yelling over the music, waiting at the bar and other people crowded too close are all things I don't like very much about pubs...

srsly?

 

[existentialist]

the pubs that have been doing takeout have always been allowed to do takeout - their license will be for on and off the premises. I'd imagine they'll keep it up if there's still demand.

It used to be the case, though I don't know if it is now, that if you got an "on" licence, it included off-sales, too.

And takeout beer isn't a new thing - quite a few places experimented with a kind of plastic flagon that held 4 pints back a few decades, and I seem to remember a brewery doing a kind of takeout Tetrapak thing they filled up and sealed for you.

 

[Orang Utan]

One good thing about Wetherspoons is no music.

 

[Orang Utan]

It used to be the case, though I don't know if it is now, that if you got an "on" licence, it included off-sales, too.

And takeout beer isn't a new thing - quite a few places experimented with a kind of plastic flagon that held 4 pints back a few decades, and I seem to remember a brewery doing a kind of takeout Tetrapak thing they filled up and sealed for you.

There's a bar near me called Growlers that did more takeout sales than at the bar before all this. It's been open for takeout all throughout this. I'm assuming the growlers are supplied by the bar, but some beertwats bring their own

 

[killer b]

srsly?

sure. I mean, I guess quiet music, table service and no random drunks lurching into you might not be everyone's idea of a perfect bar, but the horror the concept is being greeted with is a bit weird.

 

[zora]

Interesting, other than those new-ish craft beer growler places, I never knew that pub licences often include(d) off-sales as well.

 

[killer b]

I guess it varies by local authority, but it's only nightclubs round here that don't.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Escorted bog visits sounds a bit dodge, the rest sounds OK. But if everyone must be seated there will obviously be a limit on numbers, so you plan to go to a pub and you can't get in anywhere in town, do you just go home again, having paid for a babysitter and so on? More, probably around 70% of my pub visits are spontaneous, just fancy a pint and go for one, that sounds like it could be a problem now...

 

[Orang Utan]

Interesting, other than those new-ish craft beer growler places, I never knew that pub licences often include(d) off-sales as well.

most pubs (ime) have a sign above the bar naming the licensee and stating the licence is for consumption on or off the premises

 

[Red Cat]

It sounds ok to me too. I can't stand a packed pub, I hate really drunk men, I hate having to raise my voice, I feel anxious being on the edge of a conversation that I can't hear and generally find it quite overwhelming, I haven't been to the pub regularly for years, partly cos I hardly drink now, but it's also mainly unpleasant.