knife violence and murders among youth

[Treacle Toes]

Things I always think about when having this conversation:

I spent my younger years (from about 6 years old) frightened that my eldest brothers would be killed by the police or the NF.
I spent my teens and 20's-30's scared that my younger brother would be killed by the police or someone from ours or neighbouring areas.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Tomorrow, the revolution! But until then, I guess we'll just have to support racist stop and search policies.

Yeah, Black lives don’t Matter.

 

[likesfish]

stop and search can be a deterrent do enough of it and you disrupt the ability of anyone to carry a weapon in the area not sure the met have enough people on the street to do it and even if they did is it worth the hassle of pissing everybody off in the area.
Political activists are an easy small specific group who advertise who they are.
knife carrying working class males between 12 and 25 to London don't advertise

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Things I always think about when having this conversation:

I spent my younger years (from about 6 years old) frightened that my eldest brothers would be killed by the police or the NF.
I spent my teens and 20's-30's scared that my younger brother would be killed by the police or someone from ours or neighbouring areas.

Which is more likely?

 

[Cid]

The idea this is drug related is wrong too... It's always been like this in London. In fact looking at the stats (pdf) it was worse in the 90s. I remember growing up as a boy violence was basically endemic. I lived in a nice house in Camden, but everywhere you went you looked over your shoulder. Mugging happened all the time, down any side street you care to chose. I can't definitely say what their motives were; boredom, attempt to get some sense of power. Drugs trade is just an arena for that violence and disaffection to play in.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Which is more likely?

My oldest brothers no longer live in the UK.
My youngest is now in his 40's.

So actually, probably the police.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

My oldest brothers no longer live in the UK.
My youngest is now in his 40's.

So actually, probably the police.

We’re discussing Nov 2018 though. And not your family in particular.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The idea this is drug related is wrong too... It's always been like this in London. In fact looking at the stats (pdf) it was worse in the 90s. I remember growing up as a boy violence was basically endemic. I lived in a nice house in Camden, but everywhere you went you looked over your shoulder. Mugging happened all the time, down any side street you care to chose. I can't definitely say what their motives were; boredom, attempt to get some sense of power. Drugs trade is just an arena for that violence and disaffection to play in.

And we just let them get on with their civil liberties. Fuck the lumpen cunts. Ideally communities should organise against them but failing that yeah, let the bourgeoisie courts deal with them.

 

[Treacle Toes]

We’re discussing Nov 2018 though. And not your family in particular.

You asked me...

Which is more likely?

Based on a post about my older and younger brothers.

If you wanted to talk about other families you should have made that clear.

 

[Edie]

She is scared. The 'TALK' is a thing that many Black parents have with their male children. Even those that aren't out and about.

Black parents describe "The Talk" they give to their children about police

African-American parents say ‘The Talk’ is a life-and-death matter

That video is heartbreaking. I struggle to imagine how it would feel to not be able to trust the police with my sons, if they themselves were also a threat. I know if my sons get caught doing something (so far shoplifting and being a little wanker on the bus, youngest and oldest respectively) the police will give them a bollocking. Even a fake asbo. But that’s been helpful to me. But to have two fears, first that your kid might make the wrong choices, and a separate one that the police may just victimise your kid, that’s horrible.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You asked me...



Based on a post about my older and younger brothers.

If you wanted to talk about other families you should have made that clear.

We’re talking about London in 2018. Only you think your family in the 90s is relevant.

 

[Cid]

And we just let them get on with their civil liberties. Fuck the lumpen cunts. Ideally communities should organise against them but failing that yeah, let the bourgeoisie courts deal with them.

There were a handful of occasions where we got the police involved. They never managed to catch anyone.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There were a handful of occasions where we got the police involved. They never managed to catch anyone.

I bet there’s lots of other occasions where you’d get the police involved. But not black people being murdered. Three in the last week.

 

[stuff_it]

stop and search can be a deterrent do enough of it and you disrupt the ability of anyone to carry a weapon in the area not sure the met have enough people on the street to do it and even if they did is it worth the hassle of pissing everybody off in the area.
Political activists are an easy small specific group who advertise who they are.
knife carrying working class males between 12 and 25 to London don't advertise

They don't, but they do chuck an astonishing number of knives in London's waterways. I'd love to fish them all out and make a sculpture for the empty plinth.

 

[Treacle Toes]

We’re talking about London in 2018. Only you think your family in the 90s is relevant.

Do you get a thrill out of being such a fucking meany or what? It's relevant as it provides context to how things have changed in our relationship with these issues over time. You've got zero to offer in that regard it seems?

You didn't need to respond to my post about my brothers, nor be a prick about me linking to actual stats on this subject.

So shall I talk about my nieces and nephews now...shall I tell you about my god-children, my neighbour's kid, the kids of my friends?

You clearly have nothing to offer this conversation other than..Yeah, search'em...not my problem.

 

[Cid]

I bet there’s lots of other occasions where you’d get the police involved. But not black people being murdered. Three in the last week.

Yeah. Because when the police have a shit relationship with a group, e.g through regular stop and search, that group will close ranks.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Do you get a thrill out of being such a fucking meany or what? It's relevant as it provides context to how things have changed in our relationship with these issues over time. You've got zero to offer in that regard it seems?

You didn't need to respond to my post about my brothers, nor be a prick about me linking to actual stats on this subject.

So shall I talk about my nieces and nephews now...shall I tell you about my god-children, my neighbour's kid, the kids of my friends?

You clearly have nothing to offer this conversation other than..Yeah, search'em...not my problem.

Blimey. For some reason you think I’m arguing against your nephews and nieces rather than batting on their side.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah. Because when the police have a shit relationship with a group, e.g through regular stop and search, that group will close ranks.

So it has to be done with community consent.

 

[stuff_it]

If you want to assume that the number of knives even just visible in the waterway/stream between Victoria Park and Hackney Wick alone are in the water because they have been used, then we can assume that they have literally NO idea how bad knife crime is in London.

 

[Cid]

So it has to be done with community consent.

To get that you'll need a racism-free, competent, well managed police force.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Blimey. For some reason you think I’m arguing against your nephews and nieces rather than batting on their side.

Blimey indeed.

You think my nieces and nephews experiences are completely different from my younger and older brothers?

There is no correlation?

You get to resign my comments and experiences to the 90's but have zero to offer yourself.

No.

 

[stuff_it]

If you want to assume that the number of knives even just visible in the waterway/stream between Victoria Park and Hackney Wick alone are in the water because they have been used, then we can assume that they have literally NO idea how bad knife crime is in London.

... And if every London waterway has at least that many knives...

 

[Cid]

But y'know, we can fix this all by stopping knife sales on eBay.

 

[Edie]

If you want to assume that the number of knives even just visible in the waterway/stream between Victoria Park and Hackney Wick alone are in the water because they have been used, then we can assume that they have literally NO idea how bad knife crime is in London.

You can see knives in the stream?!

 

[Treacle Toes]

You can see knives in the stream?!

Canal. Yes, sometimes. Mostly it's still shopping trollys and tin cans though, like elsewhere.

 

[stuff_it]

You can see knives in the stream?!

Have a look if you're passing. There's bare knives in there.

 

[Edie]

Canal. Yes, sometimes.

Bloody hell

 

[DotCommunist]

more crude intervention policing of working class communities doesn't strike me as the winning ticket here. Taken to its logical conclusion you get broken window policing and a lot more people in jail, people getting lifed off for peanuts. And it doesn't even solve anything, if the US experience is anything to go by it just makes shit worse.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Bloody hell

See my edit... sorry.

 

[Edie]

Have a look if you're passing.

I’ve not lived in London for 16 years. But wow yeah I find that pretty shocking.