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GMB plan move against (Blairites) Progress

When i suggested that the death PASOK is a good thing. Countless times when pressed on what this means as regards the future breakup of labour - i expect you'll say that your wider concern was with the political re-organisation of the w/c (not their fate). Countless times when prodded on supporting other candidates against labour. You forget just what a rat you are.
 
The death of PASOK is a good thing. I agree with this. But I don't think the death of Labour *in the absence of the conditions for building a left alternative* would be equally beneficial. It's not a direct analogy.
 
articul8 said:
The death of PASOK is a good thing. I agree with this. But I don't think the death of Labour *in the absence of the conditions for building a left alternative* would be equally beneficial. It's not a direct analogy.
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Let's make sure there are no other left groups to take up the slack we all vote and join labour. Can you see the problem?
 
articul8 said:
The point is whether Labour can be stopped from taking the same trajectory as PASOK, and where former PASOK voters go - to SYRIZA or to New Democracy (or even Golden Dawn).
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So your concern is for where Labour's natural support might go?
If only people like your good self had worried about this at any time in the preceding 18 years, I might have more time for your argument.
 
articul8 said:
What has stopped the Brit left from creating a Syriza? Voting system (imagine wanting to change that :rolleyes: )...
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Says Mr 'swap shit sandwich A for shit sandwich B. It'll taste sweeter!'. If people had been offered a real option for change rather than one that could only benefit the mainstream political parties, we both know the vote could have gone very differently.

lack of pluralism (pluralist wankers!), etc.etc. Mind you, I assume you think Syriza are middle class left arseholes too? You're waiting for a right-wing takeover to say "I told you so".
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Interesting that you miss the single biggest factor, or that it doesn't even occur to you.
There isn't a Syriza because UK "democratic" politics isn't amenable to anything except the current system or episodic variations to it. Tinkering at the edges will only ever be tinkering at the edges, and the same interests and concerns will retain their current place on the political stage.

But you know all of this.
 
This is an awful thread.

Anyway Miliband's made a "brave" speech at the national policy forum birmingham which contains some rhetoric that I reckon could be interpreted as a nod towards the left of the party:

We need a politics where politicians look like the constituents they represent. So we should not rest until 50 per cent of our MPs are women, ethnic minorities are properly represented and we deal with one of the most glaring omissions in political representation: the skewing of our politics away from working class representation.
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http://labourlist.org/2012/06/today-miliband-will-make-a-brave-speech-but-is-it-brave-enough/

Interesting looking through the comments on this one too. This row between Progress and GMB has creeped into the mainstream news a little bit. Can milibands comments be seen as a sly wink to the left, or what? Probably not, this speech was probably written weeks ago, but it may be interpreted that way.
 
Of course it's an awful thread - because despite however his/others attempt to manufacture interest, there is none.

Yes, it can delroy. He's one of us. Always has been. That's why he's leading the labour party.

Interpreted by who? Who is supposed to interpret it that way?

What's wrong with you?
 
Because in the same why that people who don't vote labour do so because they really care about the labour party, think it's their's and are sending a message, you are doing the same by never having heard of these clowns.
 
What is so hard to accept about the fact I'm in interested, and I wanna talk about it? If you're not, then fair enough, but why should that stop me from being able to talk about it?

It's like trying to watch a film, and someone coming into the room and saying "Why are you watching this, it's shit, no-one cares about this" before going on to ruin the film by sitting through it and pointing out all the bits they don't like about it.
 
Delroy Booth said:
What is so hard to accept about the fact I'm in interested, and I wanna talk about it? If you're not, then fair enough, but why should that stop me from being able to talk about it?

It's like trying to watch a film, and someone coming into the room and saying "Why are you watching this, it's shit, no-one cares about this" before going on to ruin the film by sitting through it and pointing out all the bits they don't like about it.
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It's not hard to accept. It's very easy to accept. As i said yesterday, knock yourself out. Why is this so hard to accept? I notice that it's only the poster that you disagree with that gets this one-eyed shite.
 
Delroy Booth said:
What is so hard to accept about the fact I'm in interested, and I wanna talk about it? If you're not, then fair enough, but why should that stop me from being able to talk about it?

It's like trying to watch a film, and someone coming into the room and saying "Why are you watching this, it's shit, no-one cares about this" before going on to ruin the film by sitting through it and pointing out all the bits they don't like about it.
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It is shit. There must be something else on. Anyone fancy a pint?
 
butchersapron said:
It's not hard to accept. It's very easy to accept. As i said yesterday, knock yourself out. Why is this so hard to accept? I notice that it's only the poster that you disagree with that gets this one-eyed shite.
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Well I appreciate that you're giving me permission to discuss this topic Butchers, even though you don't deem it worthy. Very kind of you.

What you're doing here is just shitting all over the thread, I reckon you should knock it off and go post about the million and one other things on the forum for a bit, so that those of who are interested in this GMB - Progress fight can get on with talking about it without having to justify ourselves to you all the fucking time.
 
What thread? There is no thread. I'm sure that your insights could make one appear though right? Maybe by posting something that people then respond to? Oh yeah. Like already happened with fuck all interest.
 
butchersapron said:
What thread? There is no thread. I'm sure that your insights could make one appear though right? Maybe by posting something that people then respond to? Oh yeah. Like already happened with fuck all interest.
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Even if it just boils down to me and Articul8 discussing it, could you please just leave us to it without this constantly whining about how you don't care about it? You've made your point quite extensively by now.

If you've got nothing to say on the topic itself then I'm just not gonna respond because I don't want to get drawn into a 50-page pissing contest with you butchers, sorry.
 
Delroy Booth said:
Even if it just boils down to me and Articul8 discussing it, could you please just leave us to it without this constantly whining about how you don't care about it? You've made your point quite extensively by now.

If you've got nothing to say on the topic itself then I'm just not gonna respond because I don't want to get drawn into a 50-page pissing contest with you butchers, sorry.
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No, get to fuck - if want to respond to anything you and he say on this topic and the wider issues it covers then i will. It would help if you actually started saying something though.
 
Delroy Booth said:
This is an awful thread.

Anyway Miliband's made a "brave" speech at the national policy forum birmingham which contains some rhetoric that I reckon could be interpreted as a nod towards the left of the party:



http://labourlist.org/2012/06/today-miliband-will-make-a-brave-speech-but-is-it-brave-enough/

Interesting looking through the comments on this one too. This row between Progress and GMB has creeped into the mainstream news a little bit. Can milibands comments be seen as a sly wink to the left, or what? Probably not, this speech was probably written weeks ago, but it may be interpreted that way.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that he uses "...should look like". Telling MPs to represent themselves as being of the same stock as their constituents, sharing their concerns etc, while the majority of MPs lead lives massively-divorced from the experiences of those constituents.

But it's okay, folks, your MPs "look like" you, so they're obviously sound! :D
 
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