GMB plan move against (Blairites) Progress

[articul8]

I love these contemporary references! Yeah, and it also means fiefdoms.

no fiefdoms with PR/STV

 

[butchersapron]

no fiefdoms with PR/STV

In the labour party there is and always will be room for fiefdoms.

 

[articul8]

V easy when they can get 100% of councils

 

[butchersapron]

V easy when they can get 100% of councils

So stop saying that it can't happen,

 

[articul8]

But that's much less likely under PR/STV

 

[butchersapron]

But that's much less likely under PR/STV

Why the hell would internal fiefdoms be less likely under any system at all? Selection still takes place along the same old power lines. You're confusing elections with internal informal stuff.

 

[articul8]

Ah, but having one candidate per seat makes it easy to rig who gets on the council. If Labour candidates can stand against each other the voters have more power to say which kind they want

 

[butchersapron]

Who gets to stand you div. This isn't complicated.

 

[articul8]

Yes, but harder to dictate when there are more places on the ballot paper. No coincidence that the Tammany Hall types in Scotland were appalled at PR for local government. Before that they could sit on their arses for ever and a day and get back in.

 

[butchersapron]

What party were the Tammany hall types from? Who does unseating them benefit?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, but harder to dictate when there are more places on the ballot paper. No coincidence that the Tammany Hall types in Scotland were appalled at PR for local government. Before that they could sit on their arses for ever and a day and get back in.

is that an answer to "Who gets to stand you div. This isn't complicated." ? Really?

 

[articul8]

If Labour need, say, 45 candidates to stand across a borough rather than 15 it stands to reason it's harder to police who stands, no?

 

[butchersapron]

If Labour need, say, 45 candidates to stand across a borough rather than 15 it stands to reason it's harder to police who stands, no?

IN fiefdoms they always get 45 - chosen by them. Do you rerally think they'll ever be short in liverpool? No? Then your point is worthless.

 

[articul8]

well, even if they do, it's easier for an "independent Labour" type to stand a chance than it is now. You'd need 25-30%

 

[butchersapron]

well, even if they do, it's easier for an "independent Labour" type to stand a chance than it is now. You'd need 25-30%

Right - it's easier for labour candidates to stand as labour candidates by not standing for labour. WTF is is wrong with you?

 

[articul8]

I'm saying that a change in the voting system could lead to a wider field of Labour candidates (official or unofficial) for Labour voters to choose between.

 

[butchersapron]

And i'm asking you how the fuck this fantasy plays out in the urban and county fiefdoms. You're so self-deluded.

 

[articul8]

There would be less of them!! I don't like many of the resulting coalitions, but there are fewer fiefdoms in Scottish local govt these days.

 

[butchersapron]

To whose benefit?

 

[articul8]

That is a good question. But it shakes up the kaleidoscope. Left needs to get its act together still.

 

[butchersapron]

That is a good question. But it shakes up the kaleidoscope. Left needs to get its act together still.

Hang the fuck on, you earlier damned outcomes such as labour getting fucked up with with the question 'to whose benefit' but for stuff you support? Double clowns shoes.

You're even faking drinking. This confused incoherent crap is you.

 

[articul8]

I don't think the far right has benefited in Scotland

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think the far right has benefited in Scotland

Who benefited?

 

[articul8]

voters mainly

 

[butchersapron]

It's good to cling to labour because everything else is so scary, apart from in scotland and in england and everywhere.

You don't even notice when you're killing yourself anymore do you? Why not? What made this happen?

 

[butchersapron]

voters mainly

Which party?

I love voters as this nice equal body - all going into the booth and on equal terms. You're an idiot.

 

[articul8]

A post-Labour future lies through and beyond Labour.

 

[butchersapron]

Happy birthday mum!

 

[articul8]

Which party?
I love voters as this nice equal body - all going into the booth and on equal terms. You're an idiot.

The point is that the change helped to actually deliver what the electorate had voted for all along. There was some swing between parties (and Labour tended to blame STV for all its losses, far beyond what the system actually cost them - they just weren't popular enough!) but the general effect was a fairer result.

 

[butchersapron]

That's not the point. Do you not even recall your own posts? You suggested that the worth the worth of something was to be judged by how it benefits your party in the outcome. I scoffed at this nonsense. Now you offer another basis for evaluating things. You're so inconsistent so two faced, so liarful.