GMB plan move against (Blairites) Progress

[ViolentPanda]

Hands up if you know who Progress are without googling.

Sad politics geek raises hand.

 

[Delroy Booth]

No, get to fuck

This is very unbecoming of a middle aged anarchist from Bristol. Chill out.

 

[butchersapron]

For someone in their 20s to be interested in this bubble shit? Beyond embarrassing. Still waiting for your amazing post.

 

[ViolentPanda]

For someone in their 20s to be interested in this bubble shit? Beyond embarrassing. Still waiting for your amazing post.

Depends what you're hoping to get out of the "bubble shit*", doesn't it?

*I think I did one of those this morning.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

lol

Will the Labour Party or Progress be handing out some cash to low paid GMB members?

The sooner Kenny fucks the Labour affiliation off the fucking better. I guess I'll be waiting an awfully long time though..

 

[articul8]

http://labourlist.org/2012/06/today-miliband-will-make-a-brave-speech-but-is-it-brave-enough/

Interesting looking through the comments on this one too. This row between Progress and GMB has creeped into the mainstream news a little bit. Can milibands comments be seen as a sly wink to the left, or what? Probably not, this speech was probably written weeks ago, but it may be interpreted that way.

I'm going to ignore Butchers on this thread unless he has something more relevant to say than "na-na-na no-one cares".

Sadly I don't think Ed M means much by this - any more than it 's quite convenient when Alan Johnson (I was a postie) and Hazel Blears (my brother was a bus driver) were around. Of course, taken literally, what he says is much more interesting than that. This is only a small part of what the orginal LRC thought it was about - much more important was the notion they were there to fight for the interests of their class [ok this wasn't universal, but still...]

A bit of a sensitive time this spat with Progress for Ed M and Iain McNichol - given that the latter is in the process of firing some of the Blairites at party HQ, but at the same time wasn't to be seem as for party unity.

 

[articul8]

Fitting. But you don't know why.

You think I'm out to starve the peasants?

 

[articul8]

So your concern is for where Labour's natural support might go?
If only people like your good self had worried about this at any time in the preceding 18 years, I might have more time for your argument.

I was pointing this out reasonably early (not quite after Isle of Dogs), but certainly around time of Oldham/Burnley kick offs. It's one of the reasons I was campaigning for PR - to give Labour an incentive to work in "safe" seats.

 

[butchersapron]

Er...at that time which party were you a member of?

 

[articul8]

what time? Isle of Dogs - Labour. Oldham/Burnley - SP. From 2007 on - Labour again.

But as SP as I was saying "Labour has lost the support of the w/c in these places - the BNP will pick up support unless we can build an alternative".

Only I came to conclude that on balance, making Labour recover its support was more possible than building a new workers party.

 

[butchersapron]

I was pointing this out reasonably early (not quite after Isle of Dogs), but certainly around time of Oldham/Burnley kick offs. It's one of the reasons I was campaigning for PR - to give Labour an incentive to work in "safe" seats.

You're confusing 1993 with 2003 btw

 

[articul8]

You're confusing 1993 with 2003 btw

? How - I'm talking about Beacon

 

[butchersapron]

what time? Isle of Dogs - Labour. Oldham/Burnley - SP. From late 2006 on - Labour again.

So you were in the SP/militant for 8 years at least from 93 to 2001? No you weren't. And you were pointing out what in 2001 about a party that you weren't a member of and pretending to be implacably opposed to?

 

[butchersapron]

? How - I'm talking about Beacon

Wow a whole decade lost/invented. What year was he elected?

 

[articul8]

I never said I was. I was in the SP from 1999? to 2005

I was implacably opposed to the Labour party having deserted its w/c constituency.

 

[articul8]

Wow a whole decade lost/invented. What year was he elected?

92?

 

[butchersapron]

I never said I was. I was in the SP from 1999? to 2005

I was implacably opposed to the Labour party having deserted its w/c constituency.

You said that you were in the labour party from 1993 to 2001 - and the SP from then to 2006 . Now it's the SP from 1999 to 2005. You've got yourself in a bit of a muddle here haven't you. Were you in the labour party in 1993 or not?

 

[articul8]

No, I was in Labour from around 1993 - 1999/2000. I was out by 2001, because I was campaigning for the Socialist Alliance in the Preston by-election of 2000. Thinking back it must have been 2007 when I joined Labour, but I'd left the SP in 2005.

When was Oldham? I was in Glodwick(!) the day of the riot (not the evening, ironically).

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Nora butch! No one cares!

 

[articul8]

You've got yourself in a bit of a muddle here haven't you. Were you in the labour party in 1993 or not?

what muddle? Yes.

 

[butchersapron]

This is why you were bigging them up on here in 2006 -ffs

No - you are right. As a militant socialist, I would be barred from Milbank's approved list of candidates. They only tolerate a residual handful of left MP's as a screen for their single-minded neo-liberalism.

If you are a member of the Labour party and are against Blair, the occupation of Iraq, ID cards etc - and want to try to change the party, I wish you all the luck in the world. But I don't fancy your chances.

I think, however, that people who feel New Labour is a betrayal of everything Labour was meant to stand for, should very seriously consider joining the campaign to launch a new workers party - like in Germany and Brazil
see http://www.cnwp.org.uk

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

 

[butchersapron]

Nora butch! No one cares!

I'm just showing the depths of my not caring/deep concern

 

[articul8]

Wow you're background research is better than my memory. I dropped out of full-time SP activity in 2005, but was clearly sympathetic for a bit longer after that. I joined Labour to back John McDonnell's leadership candidacy. Which was 2007, but had a fair run up.

 

[butchersapron]

Wow you're background research is better than my memory. I dropped out of full-time SP activity in 2005, but was clearly sympathetic for a bit longer after that. I joined Labour to back John McDonnell's leadership candidacy. Which it was 2007, but had a fair run up.

So let me get this right - you were in the labour party in the years 1993 to some vague period in the early 2000s and then left - why? What were the reasons?

 

[butchersapron]

That's some mighty fine ignoring there btw articul8.

 

[articul8]

So let me get this right - you were in the labour party in the years 1993 to some vague period in the early 2000s and then left - why? What were the reasons?

I was Labour at uni 1995-1998 (having joined under John Smith) but this was at a time when New Labour was at its height - even then I was considered the resident Trot (though at the time I didn't really know what that meant). But I'd hoped, like many Labour voters, that "New Labour" was all about getting power, and once they'd got in they'd start ditching some of that crap. So I got progressively disillusioned 1997-1999.

In 2000 our (Preston) MP Audrey Wise - who I'd got loads of time for - died and there was a big split in the local party about the selection of the candidate to replace her. In the end a Blairite no-mark who's still an MP got it, narrowly ahead of Valerie's daughter. People on the Labour left were really pissed off, and a number (including some local councillors who resigned the offical whip) got behind the Socialist Alliance. So did I, and as a result of meeting the various forces involved ended up in the SP.

 

[articul8]

That's some mighty fine ignoring there btw articul8.

This

New Labour is a betrayal of everything Labour was meant to stand for

Is 100% spot on.

If you are a member of the Labour party.... and want to try to change the party, I wish you all the luck in the world. But I don't fancy your chances.

Well, this might still be true. But just because something's difficult doesn't mean its not worth trying.

 

[butchersapron]

What about your response to people arguing to joing labour and change the party from within?

am not sure why it would be a good thing to lead people down a dead end.

Now you are sure - what has convinced you of the goodness of trying to lead people down a dead end today?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was pointing this out reasonably early (not quite after Isle of Dogs), but certainly around time of Oldham/Burnley kick offs. It's one of the reasons I was campaigning for PR - to give Labour an incentive to work in "safe" seats.

Burnley and Oldham were 2001.
As for campaigning for PR, if you're referring to the referendum, then you didn't. You campaigned for AV "because at least it's change" (to paraphrase). You tucked your tail in and went with it, rather than sticking up for your principles.
You'll do well as a Labour MP, I'll give you that.

 

[butchersapron]

Burnley and Oldham were 2001.
As for campaigning for PR, if you're referring to the referendum, then you didn't. You campaigned for AV "because at least it's change" (to paraphrase). You tucked your tail in and went with it, rather than sticking up for your principles.
You'll do well as a Labour MP, I'll give you that.

Which is odd as a few short years ago this left-wing moon was arguing:

As a militant socialist, I would be barred from Milbank's approved list of candidates. They only tolerate a residual handful of left MP's as a screen for their single-minded neo-liberalism.