After my second child, a botched Caesarian (stitched up my ureter), it took 7 days of increasing pain (as urine backed up into my bloated kidney) before action was (reluctantly) taken...and only at the point where I was literally speechless on the floor attempting to sink my teeth into the consultant's ankle. 7 days of being treated as a hysterical malingerer (this was my 2nd C-section, I well knew this was all wrong). After the revealing, middle of the night X-rays, a culture of silence and secrecy still prevailed...and a lifetime of distrust for my part...not helped by being a wc women with dependancy issues.
Feminism and a world designed for men
- Thread starter friendofdorothy
- Start date
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I haven't read the whole thread, and I note that recent posts have been more about gynae issues* but there's actually thing known as Yentl Syndrome, about how women die due to misdiagnosis because the most commonly known symptoms of a heart attack relate to how it usually presents in men, and the symptoms experienced by women can be different, leading to a failure to diagnose a fatal heart attack:
Yentl Syndrome - Wikipedia
*In my mid-twenties I experienced months and months of progressively more painful periods and heavy bleeding, and my (male) GP seemingly wrote it off as 'You're a woman, you have periods, you have period pain' *shrugs*
He prescribed mefanamic acid at one point, but that didn't work.
After about a year, of me being fobbed off, my then-bf insisted on coming to the doctor with me, after I'd spent a week off work, rolling around in agony in bed, taking the maximum number of painkillers during the day/early evening, and then opening a bottle of wine to get drunk and dull my senses/the pain.
I was referred for an exploratory laparoscopy and it turned out I'd had pelvic inflammatory disease and had scarring/adhesions, including on my fallopian tubes.
I don't know at what point my GP would've referred me, if at all, if it hadn't been for my bf insisting.
Yentl Syndrome - Wikipedia
*In my mid-twenties I experienced months and months of progressively more painful periods and heavy bleeding, and my (male) GP seemingly wrote it off as 'You're a woman, you have periods, you have period pain' *shrugs*
He prescribed mefanamic acid at one point, but that didn't work.
After about a year, of me being fobbed off, my then-bf insisted on coming to the doctor with me, after I'd spent a week off work, rolling around in agony in bed, taking the maximum number of painkillers during the day/early evening, and then opening a bottle of wine to get drunk and dull my senses/the pain.
I was referred for an exploratory laparoscopy and it turned out I'd had pelvic inflammatory disease and had scarring/adhesions, including on my fallopian tubes.
I don't know at what point my GP would've referred me, if at all, if it hadn't been for my bf insisting.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Historically, though, women have been dismissed as 'hysterical', symptoms not taken seriously and/or institutionalised, being... I was going to say perceived, but it's more like judged, to be emotional and/or exaggerating when in any kind of pain.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Not being believed is the killer. The midwife wouldn't believe that I was in labour with my second child until she arrived because I 'wasn't making enough fuss'. Despite me saying 'I've been in labour before! And I'm in labour!'
On the other hand my periods have mostly left me utterly broadsided with pain and I suspect I've always had endometriosis but was fobbed off every single time. It is a bit like being a cow going to market sometimes. As long as outwardly you look okay no one cares.
On the other hand my periods have mostly left me utterly broadsided with pain and I suspect I've always had endometriosis but was fobbed off every single time. It is a bit like being a cow going to market sometimes. As long as outwardly you look okay no one cares.
Athos
Well-Known Member
My wife had a coil fitted, but, unbeknownst to anyone, they punctured her womb, such that it was floating in her abdomen (where it could've easily caused untold damage). She was obviously in a lot of pain (bear in mind I'd seen her give birth twice, both without drugs, and the second before the midwife arrived, with no complaint whatsoever). I took her to the walk-in GP at the hospital, and they were ridiculously dismissive. In the end I took her took A&E and refused to be fobbed off, and insisted on an xray. Lo and behold they found the UID, and immediately carried out emergency surgery. But it had been a fucking struggle to get anyone to take it seriously, and I think if I hadn't have been there it wouldn't have happened at all. Meantime, the medical establishment (including, sadly, female doctors and nurses) was fawning over drunk (male, as if it needs saying) pricks coming in with e.g. broken hands from fighting.
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bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Sorry to hear about your wife's experience. That sounds awful, and awful that she needed you to stand up for her before something was done.
WRT the bit in bold, just wondering if the drunk fighty males (and their mates) might represent more of a threat to A&E staff than other patients and whether that's why they are given special treatment, or whether it's because blokes in general tend to be taken more seriously?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
If thats the case, that"s "the threat of male violence" part of the patriarchy.
Oh such choices we have! Which way shall I be oppressed today...?!
Oh such choices we have! Which way shall I be oppressed today...?!
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Quite.
Manter
Lunch Mob
Fucking HELL. a) your wife sounds nails and b) thank God you said what needed saying and c) how infuriating it takes a male voice to be heard.
Get well soon Mrs Athos
Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's an either/or.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
QFT
Athos
Well-Known Member
The pain was one thing, but the worst was their casual attitude to the very real risk of it puncturing something. When they found it, it was poking the bladder.
Athos
Well-Known Member
It was a while ago; she's fine, now. And, yes, she's nails (whilst still being the kindest person I know).
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Every satnav I've has had a female voice.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Meetoo
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
They always have both male and female voice options.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Interesting interview on R4 Women's hour this morning. Think they said 77% of NHS staff are female yet ppe, scrubs & gowns are still designed for men. It is described as 'unisex ' but if smaller sizes are available they are small male sized & not small enough. It's a particular problem with masks. Routinely suitable sizes are not available.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
It won't happen if we don't all highlight it and kick up a fuss. Then keep kicking up a fuss.
Let's not be so defeatist. I never thought we would get rid of the Berlin wall or acheive LGBT equality laws in my lifetime. It's amazing what can happen if enough people protest for long enough.
Naming the problem is a start. Then raising it as an issue when ever we see it, especially at work. Over and over. Bit like banging your head against a brick wall.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I think the people for whom the PPE is too male are probably far too busy to protest at the moment. I wonder whether there is anything we can do.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
We can highlight the issue, talk about it, share it on line. Write to our MPs? We can help make it a big issue, so that those who are responsible for buying, supplying, making and designing ppe have to do something. I don't imagine we can do much to change it in time to help during the lockdown, but it will still be needed afterwards.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Sorry to chime in here as I haven't been contributing on the thread, but yeah that's common in other areas of medical wear too. The green uniforms ambulance staff wear come in sizes for males like up to XXXXXXXL, yet the female ones are restricted to a pathetically small range of XXS-XL or something. A few women I know have had to pay for their uniform to be tailored so they don't look like they're wearing a sack.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
People are struggling so much with all kinds of PPE and uniform at the moment, aren't they. That is interesting, though. The website for my work uniform has two sections - 'work clothes' and 'women's work clothes'. There are about 3 items in the women's bit. It's quite tiresome being an afterthought all the time but I'm not out saving lives everyday, where it's much more troubling.
mango5
Endeavour era
I don't think I'm being defeatist. I think I'm acknowledging the ubiquitous and huge scale of the problem not suggesting that nothing useful can be done.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Piece about it in the Guardian today:
www.theguardian.com
Sexism on the Covid-19 frontline: 'PPE is made for a 6ft 3in rugby player'
Health professionals, experts and unions say poorly fitting equipment is risking lives of female workers
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's the same for PPE in industry. I got a mild case of arc eye during welding as the protective visor kept slipping off my head. The smallest gloves were massively too big and the overalls were too long in the leg and stupidly loose in the waist yet not overly generous in the bust because they're man shaped. My safety shoes had to be special ordered as the smallest offered routinely was a size 6.
At my last company, everything had to be special ordered for women engineers as nothing that fit women properly was kept in stock in stores. Even fleeces and polo shirts available to all staff were men sized and shaped.
In my experience women don't want pink PPE or tools. They just want the same stuff as men that's properly sized.
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When I joined my company, we all got given a t shirt. I asked for a medium and of course it was a man's medium so huge. (Technology company so of course it's all only men who're going to work there. 
) A female colleague raised it and it was seen as a very weird thing to be bothered about (her point was about the inherent bias in their assumptions but I don't think they got the point at all). And I also don't think they got that it's yet another minor thing that says you're not really welcome.
Obviously not in the same universe as PPE being the wrong size but shows it's just not even thought of/seen as being a thing to even vaguely consider.
) A female colleague raised it and it was seen as a very weird thing to be bothered about (her point was about the inherent bias in their assumptions but I don't think they got the point at all). And I also don't think they got that it's yet another minor thing that says you're not really welcome.Obviously not in the same universe as PPE being the wrong size but shows it's just not even thought of/seen as being a thing to even vaguely consider.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I think it is the same universe, Sue, as both situations demonstrate inherent bias and a complete indifference when the problem is raised. I said on another thread sometimes you just can't be arsed having the same fight yet again.When I joined my company, we all got given a t shirt. I asked for a medium and of course it was a man's medium so huge. (Technology company so of course it's all only men who're going to work there.
Obviously not in the same universe as PPE being the wrong size but shows it's just not even thought of/seen as being a thing to even vaguely consider.
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