Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
You mean the Fabianites, right? Like they're the UK version of Liberal Leftism.
The Left Failing Young Men (and how to reclaim the Left from liberals)
- Thread starter Yugoslav
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I mean any that frame politics more around personal identity and less around social class. I'm not 100% up-to-date on the nomenclature.
It's difficult though because personal identity is more important to more people than social class, that's the air we breathe in the uk in 2024, elsewhere too but this is a UK site and that's my personal perspective.
So, how to even communicate the idea of class politics, when so many young men (and no doubt also young women) not only don't see it, but don't care to?
Not with lectures, that's for sure.
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Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
That's exactly the Fabianite description. A Briton focused on liberal idpol while proclaiming himself a "leftist" is a Fabianite to me.
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
“Londoner Harry Fabian (Richard Widmark) is a second-rate con man looking for an angle.”
From a film called The Night and the City.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Fun fact, the "Fabian" comes from Fabius, a Roman who was known as "the delayer" for his strategy against the enemy.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
They obviously based in on Teucher's obsession with Moomins...
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
Interesting that the OP also fits the description
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I think labelling -> objectifying is a superb political strategy that has literally no downsides
(unlike sarcasm, which is totally out of order)
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
What makes my Marxism-Leninism irrelevant?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The original fabians were much further to the left than any Labour government or even Labour party we've ever had here. The Left (what you'd agree is Left anyway) here in 2024 is marginal in our national politics, and Yugoslav you need to understand that 'fabian' (as pointed out previously) is just an anachronism in the UK. Most people here, I expect, don't even know what fabians are.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Again, men are just not feeling well under liberalism. But far too many are going for a reactionary course because liberals are ruining leftism. For men have helped create revolutions and pave socialism. Now there isn't really much of a big red man but now a massive bourgeois apparatus degrading men as "tankies, toxic, terfs, swerfs" and etc. The hegemony does not lie within men but within the bourgeois elite which the liberals have been ignoring or downplaying. They diverted away from class struggle into promoting this fake socialist heresy claiming that rich people don't cause problems but someone else and then they go on to list a very racist stereotype which the right-wing also tends to do (the straight white man stereotype).
When a liberal movement tries to fight for diversity and does this, then there is no difference with a right-wing or far-right movement doing the same. Liberals conditionally are racist while right-wingers are unconditionally racist.
When a liberal movement tries to fight for diversity and does this, then there is no difference with a right-wing or far-right movement doing the same. Liberals conditionally are racist while right-wingers are unconditionally racist.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
But they never accepted or considered Marxism, did they? They based off their entire movement principle in the beginning from Fabius' strategy of "gradual delay", thinking that by "gradual reforms" they would empower socialism or communism. In the early years, Fabians were kinda eugenicist as eugenics were common. Plus they lobbied for a capitalist welfare state during the time of the British Empire, meaning that they supported the notion of exploiting colonies to suit the wealthy British Isles with domestic welfare (British imperialism). Their 1900 essay, "Fabianism and the Empire" literally supported the Boer War.
I don't think the Fabians were any "further to left" given their uncanny support for the British Empire.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Note what I'm comparing them to: the British Labour Party.
Also note: we still have a hereditary head of state. There's no point arguing the British Left isn't Left enough, we already know that!
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Maybe its because liberal leftism DOES NOT APPEAL to their revolutionary fervor? The first thing I learned about communism is that it is revolutionary and if the liberal left cannot prove itself worthy like the 1917 leftists, then why should I join a socialist group of such flaw? I don't care if it has big membership, if people are gonna go on "healthy mix between capitalism and socialism" or "nuh uh, we don't want any tankies", then why should I join that socialist group?
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
Exactly. Seeing how it trips over itself is the only thing that's interesting about the tedious oxygen thief.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I think you find one that suits you then.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Maybe online. That's where these young male leftist MLs are mostly now.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
PTK
Paul Kegan
One of the principles of Marxism, which of course is not unique, is that everything changes. The Fabian Society still exists, but it no longer espouses the Fabianism against which Lenin polemicised. It is not a reformist socialist organisation. For you to employ Lenin's arguments against the Labour Party is to treat his writings as scripture. It is idealist. It is a religious approach.
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Not really based on its reformist values. Idk why would a proletarian uphold reformism if it merely seeks to compromise with its oppressive ruling elite.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yugoslav
Jugoslaven
Their FAQ is simply about who they are and how to join them, not much detail about their ideology but they're reformist still, regardless.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah, but I'm not sure why you're telling us this?
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