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Why are more young men than older seeing feminism as a bad thing?

pbsmooth said:
increasing loneliness is surely a big factor in all this. people then look for a tribe, to feel part of something (look at us on here). and these grifters offer that - and are good at playing into that. 'speaking for the silent majority' etc. I guess to the person mentioning women, as if to say what's the equivalent, then the stereotype would be getting sucked into anti-vax wacky conspiracy groups.
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There is from what I've seen, a large circle of coincidence between these guys and the anti-vax/"resistance" types. Especially amongst the more openly far right.
 
The idea that there should be The One Single Policy we all follow for who pays for the date, when financial incompatibility is one of the leading reasons for divorce, is part of the problem. We keep asking "should X have done that? Should Y have expected that?" When in reality we need to be asking, what do I want in a relationship? How do I attract the person I want? What behaviours early on indicate what I want later on?" Just because you don't like how someone splits a bill and it wouldn't work for you, it doesn't necessarily mean there's a moral issue with how they're doing it
 
I think the bill splitting on dates all depends on the situation. If you're comfortable enough to have a healthy conversation about who pays, have that discussion, but don't look to have an argument on it. Accept the outcome and thank the person if they paid your way.

Quite a few times, I paid for me and the guy I was seeing, but over all, he did do a lot of the funding of stuff we would do, even though I'd "get the next round" if it was something we were enjoying at the moment. If we went to the cinema and I'd see someone I knew working there, I'd pay since I'd get a discount from that person I knew. So the guy would pay for snacks if we got any. As his place wasn't set up for two or more people to eat, I did invest in some "TV trays" to keep in a corner. He didn't have a proper table for company, so we would sit on his couch if we brought something in. Whatever he ended up doing with the trays, I'll never know. A few times he ate at my place and I cooked (when it got nice, we grilled), so it wasn't like he never came round to mine. My challenge was, and still is, I live with my mother, so it's hard to have anyone over, let alone someone you're actively dating.

The dating apps can be challenging because you don't know who you will really be talking to. Sure, when I started talking to the guy above, it was on a dating app, but he also went out of his way to describe what he looked like since he had zero pictures on his profile. I was going on on a limb by meeting him, especially since he said he's "tall, lanky, wears glasses that look like they were from the 1980s, has boy band type haircut, and overall looks like a nerdy geeky serial killer" (since he worked in IT). Yup. When I met him in the restaurant, I saw him coming down the hall because he described himself perfectly. And no, he wasn't a serial killer; just looked like one.

But, there's also the guys who turn ugly if you politely turn them down (like people have stated in comments above). I know women can too, because I've heard it from male friends. A while after I moved to Florida, some chap messaged me on the dating site I was on. He had a profile with pictures, and said that he "got a job near" me and wanted "to know if he could couch crash with me for a while". He said he "would be willing to pay some of the utilities and such, just until he got his own place", but he also "insisted on staying on the couch" so there'd be nothing between us, unless we ended up wanting that. I read his profile a little more and saw he was stating he was in New England. I politely messaged him back saying "Congratulations on your new job, but I think it's a little bit of a drive from New England to Southwest Florida". I apologized for saying no to his opportunity, and suggested that he try another website to look for a place to stay. I thought that the site we were on might not be the right type of site. Oh, did that set him off in a tizzy. He blew up my inbox saying all sorts of ugly stuff. The things I can only repeat are things like I am "ugly and fat" (I know I'm not skinny nor am I right for every person) and if I "wore a dress and put some make up on in all the pictures on my profile, maybe some guy would actually ask me out so I wouldn't have to be on a dating site" (I don't wear dresses normally, so why have one on in a profile picture?). Not only did I block him, I reported him for what he wrote. The app people did delete his profile, but a couple weeks later I saw it up again under a different name. He didn't reach out to me nor did I him.

The law firm I work at, some of the intake coordinators are women between 21 and 24. They're pretty young things that can hold their own but they do get a lot of older men (55+) hitting on them. The harassment they get, is so sleazy, it irks you. I told one of the girls today, that it's because the area we are in, some of the men over 60 have been so many times divorced, they are looking for their next wife. She said she can see that, as a few clients have probed her about her life and when asked how old she is, they say she's a year or two too old (at 24... and these guys can be 2.5 to 3 times her age). She's actually bought fake wedding rings on Amazon to wear when she meets clients, in hope that she doesn't get harassed. She said some of the male clients that are 18-30 will see the ring and be the most polite and civil human being. It's not to say that all 50+ year olds are slime, because she's gotten the divorcees who are nice too, but typically, they're looking for a hookup. Several have found her social media profiles and tried to friend her.

It's a mixed bag for the treatment of people in general. I don't think it's "a woman belongs in the home and a man belongs in the workplace" at all aspects of life. There was a comment about men staying home to do family stuff while the woman goes to work and I think that's a cool thing to do, if you want it. But then there are women who prefer to be the "stay at home caregiver" and let the man do the money work. That's fine too. If both people want to work and split the difference at home, so be it. But have that conversation and don't look for bad stuff to happen or it will and it will create negativity for children in the house. They'll grow up thinking one side is better than the other and that could lead to what's happening now and why we're all talking about it.
 
Orang Utan said:
Oh. You’re back.
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And as incels they are ripe for exploitation by YouTube Grifters.

However I think the main source of their confusion is the sudden exfoliation of sexuality into manifold non-binary forms that we have seen throughout the Anglosphere over the last twenty years. This has left many trad hetero men in a state of utter helpless disarray. Many of them blame "feminism" for their sad condition imce.
 
Cloo said:
www.theguardian.com

Gen Z boys and men more likely than baby boomers to believe feminism harmful, says poll

Fifth of men aged 16-29 look favourably on social media influencer Andrew Tate
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

It is still a minority fortunately, but interesting that it's less favourable a view than older men. I saw someone commenting that it's probably more than just 'social media', and I think they have a good point. Yes, it spreads the ideas, but they're also coming from other factors.

I wonder if it's connected with the distance from a society of much more overt sexism, and also a late-stage capitalism thing where a) the role of man = dad = provider is being eroded and b) a modest job doesn't actually even pay you to live anymore. So they turn their anger at this at feminism because it seems obvious - everything's got worse since women got equality! [obvs not recognising we still don't have equality] -rather than against capitalism or the patriarchy, both of which are also happy to blame feminism.
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I think generally people may want to feel more masculine, so when a woman shows some form of dominant characteristics, they may take it as some sort of threat?
 
ouirdeaux said:
Exfoliate! Exfoliate!
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Efflorescence then. In any case, the last twenty years have seen a massively sudden and unprecedented explosion of minority sexualities, combined with the demise of normative heterosex, and this means that many of the average sort of young 20-ish hetero blokes who just like girls and would probably have settled down quite easily and been good family men 40 or 50 years ago have been left high and dry, all alone, unable to find non-existent cubicle call-center employment devoid of any intellectual interest or even much financial reward, never read book, watch internet nonsense instead, widely regarded as unattractive, mocked and abandoned, scorned as pathetic and useless, and basically destined to welter forever on the burning red-hot coals of unsatisfied lust in a pornographic environment that most probably drives many of them completely insane, and definitely makes a lot of them into visible weirdos afaics.
 
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Well they are trying to break all social bonds all the time and they admit it. But progress and regress is messy. But who is 'they' Phil? What is their political capital and objective or circumstantial aim?
 
phildwyer said:
Efflorescence then. In any case, the last twenty years have seen a massively sudden and unprecedented explosion of minority sexualities, combined with the demise of normative heterosex, and this means that many of the average sort of young 20-ish hetero blokes who just like girls and would probably have settled down quite easily and been good family men 40 or 50 years ago have been left high and dry, all alone, unable to find non-existent cubicle call-center employment devoid of any intellectual interest or even much financial reward, never read book, watch internet nonsense instead, widely regarded as unattractive, mocked and abandoned, scorned as pathetic and useless, and basically destined to welter forever on the burning red-hot coals of unsatisfied lust in a pornographic environment that most probably drives many of them completely insane, and definitely makes a lot of them into visible weirdos afaics.
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isayoldchap.jpg
 
phildwyer said:
Efflorescence then. In any case, the last twenty years have seen a massively sudden and unprecedented explosion of minority sexualities, combined with the demise of normative heterosex, and this means that many of the average sort of young 20-ish hetero blokes who just like girls and would probably have settled down quite easily and been good family men 40 or 50 years ago have been left high and dry, all alone, unable to find non-existent cubicle call-center employment devoid of any intellectual interest or even much financial reward, never read book, watch internet nonsense instead, widely regarded as unattractive, mocked and abandoned, scorned as pathetic and useless, and basically destined to welter forever on the burning red-hot coals of unsatisfied lust in a pornographic environment that most probably drives many of them completely insane, and definitely makes a lot of them into visible weirdos afaics.
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Parklife

i'll be honest phil i'm kinda disappointed thought you'd save the stupid for your response to the putin interview
and you wasted a great portion of it on this response

i mean you have reserves but dear god man
 
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phildwyer said:
Efflorescence then. In any case, the last twenty years have seen a massively sudden and unprecedented explosion of minority sexualities, combined with the demise of normative heterosex, and this means that many of the average sort of young 20-ish hetero blokes who just like girls and would probably have settled down quite easily and been good family men 40 or 50 years ago have been left high and dry, all alone, unable to find non-existent cubicle call-center employment devoid of any intellectual interest or even much financial reward, never read book, watch internet nonsense instead, widely regarded as unattractive, mocked and abandoned, scorned as pathetic and useless, and basically destined to welter forever on the burning red-hot coals of unsatisfied lust in a pornographic environment that most probably drives many of them completely insane, and definitely makes a lot of them into visible weirdos afaics.
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You need a Mills and Boon contract or a therapist
 
did anyone get on the Mike O'Hearn memes? I loved them i have to say. and i thought they were very interesting actually because they expressed a kind of boyish vulnerability and playful stupidity, total juxtaposed against the Ultimate Uber Chad - the body builder O'Hearn. It is just using old reels of O'hearn and putting stupid jokes on them. I found them strangely sweet because there's a kind of vulnerability, self moking, showing teh parts hidden behind defences. O'hearn's nervous smile and "sadness behind the eyes" just adds to it. and to really top it off, and probably some kind of subconcious slip of the tongue is the song "baby don't hurt me."

compilation of just some of them. there was millions at one point.

 
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phildwyer said:
Efflorescence then. In any case, the last twenty years have seen a massively sudden and unprecedented explosion of minority sexualities, combined with the demise of normative heterosex, and this means that many of the average sort of young 20-ish hetero blokes who just like girls and would probably have settled down quite easily and been good family men 40 or 50 years ago have been left high and dry, all alone, unable to find non-existent cubicle call-center employment devoid of any intellectual interest or even much financial reward, never read book, watch internet nonsense instead, widely regarded as unattractive, mocked and abandoned, scorned as pathetic and useless, and basically destined to welter forever on the burning red-hot coals of unsatisfied lust in a pornographic environment that most probably drives many of them completely insane, and definitely makes a lot of them into visible weirdos afaics.
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Enough about you, Phil.
 
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