Why people don't want kids anymore (apparently)

[Red Cat]

I'm not trying to say that there's no difference between being a parent and not. Of course there is, a massive one. The question is whether it ultimately makes people happier or more satisfied and how anyone can know if it would / would have.

Those with kids of course have their lives tied to the ups and downs of their children and a large quantity of their time and energy becomes devoted to this. But for those who don't have children, the equivalent time & energy doesn't just go into a vacuum instead. It goes into other things, other human relationships (that might include other people's kids), projects, and causes and these may prove more or less fulfilling than kids would have been - no-one can ever know for sure.

Lurking behind the question, I think for many, is the suspicion that kids is the "natural" thing, the "natural" way to be fulfilled but this might rest on a number of inaccurate assumptions. For example, being a parent now is almost certainly a very different thing, with very different expectations, from being a parent 500 or 4000 years ago.

I don't find 'happiness' a very fruitful concept tbh. Hence why I didn't use it.

 

[pbsmooth]

I'm not trying to say that there's no difference between being a parent and not. Of course there is, a massive one. The question is whether it ultimately makes people happier or more satisfied and how anyone can know if it would / would have.

Those with kids of course have their lives tied to the ups and downs of their children and a large quantity of their time and energy becomes devoted to this. But for those who don't have children, the equivalent time & energy doesn't just go into a vacuum instead. It goes into other things, other human relationships (that might include other people's kids), projects, and causes and these may prove more or less fulfilling than kids would have been - no-one can ever know for sure.

Lurking behind the question, I think for many, is the suspicion that kids is the "natural" thing, the "natural" way to be fulfilled but this might rest on a number of inaccurate assumptions. For example, being a parent now is almost certainly a very different thing, with very different expectations, from being a parent 500 or 4000 years ago.

yes, I will never know if getting into wood-working and volunteering at a donkey sanctuary would ultimately have given me a more powerful emotional feeling than cuddling my daughter and making her laugh... a great mystery will remain.

 

[Poot]

I think the same amount of people don't want kids now as didn't want kids in the past. I don't think that's changed.

I love that people have some freedom to choose now. I'm grateful to be living in these times.

 

[existentialist]

FWIW, I wanted kids, but was petrified of repeating my mother's behaviour towards them, which made me reluctant - I didn't want to risk repeating my own miserable childhood on other people. By the time I'd got my head sorted enough to even consider it, I was in my forties, and felt it was a bit late to responsibly start a family. I spent a while grieving that, but found other outlets for my parental inclinations. Sometimes people say to me that I'd have been a good dad, but I'll settle for being a stepdad and grandparent, and I get on with most of the kids I encounter. That'll do, and I must admit, with the state of the world as it is, it's probably been the right decision, even if it does hurt a bit now and again.

 

[teuchter]

but found other outlets for my parental inclinations.

Apparently woodworking and donkey sanctuaries are the only alternatives.

 

[JimW]

Apparently woodworking and donkey sanctuaries are the only alternatives.

Combine the two and make a wonky donkey.
I came to parenthood late, not expecting to have a settled relationship due to a bit of a peripatetic life, and to be honest just sort of fell into it and got on with it without any grand designs or deep thoughts one way or the other. I'm stuck with it now whatever and there's lots to recommend it along with the trials. Bit like the rest of life.

 

[existentialist]

Apparently woodworking and donkey sanctuaries are the only alternatives.

Each to their own. I find my career, performing music, and being self-sufficient to a fault viable alternatives

And I have 2 great grandkids without all the messy business of conception and child rearing of their parents

 

[furluxor]

As people mentioned, nowadays we're allowed to discuss the downsides of parenthood. I haven't read through all four pages of replies but some reasons I haven't seen mentioned, are:

• Whilst children bring something to the relationship, such as new conversation topics and bonding over parenthood, the parents' attention is split between their partner and their child. It can be hard to give your partner as much time and attention.
• Other relationships can also be affected. It's hard to find time for friends when you're parenting, especially if they don't have children themselves. Interests diverge.
• Physical changes and potentially traumatic experience of giving birth.
• Having to watch Bluey instead of films that interest you, substituting the child's interests for your own, etc. Fading into the background a little.

The benefits of parenthood are pretty widely celebrated so I won't repeat them for balance, but ultimately each person has to weigh things up and answer the question "is it worth it for me?", there being no right or wrong answers.

I never wanted to be a parent, never played a parent to a doll as a kid, just zero interest. I'm happy to put that love into my partner and friends instead. I have a couple of friends who've had a child and whilst we definitely lost something in our relationship, I try to maintain what we have left. That means finding ways to adapt to their schedules, taking a polite interest in their child and not rubbing in certain freedoms that I enjoy that they do not. Giving them space to talk about the aspects of their lives that are hard and helping them find joy in those that are rewarding. Basically, not being a dick.

 

[pbsmooth]

Apparently woodworking and donkey sanctuaries are the only alternatives.

I wish you were as clever as you thought you were, it would make it so much easier for the rest of us!

 

[SpookyFrank]

Each to their own. I find my career, performing music, and being self-sufficient to a fault viable alternatives

And I have 2 great grandkids without all the messy business of conception and child rearing of their parents

If there was some reliable way to skip the parenthood bit and just go straight to grandparent I'd be happy with that.

 

[Orang Utan]

As people mentioned, nowadays we're allowed to discuss the downsides of parenthood. I haven't read through all four pages of replies but some reasons I haven't seen mentioned, are:

• Whilst children bring something to the relationship, such as new conversation topics and bonding over parenthood, the parents' attention is split between their partner and their child. It can be hard to give your partner as much time and attention.
• Other relationships can also be affected. It's hard to find time for friends when you're parenting, especially if they don't have children themselves. Interests diverge.
• Physical changes and potentially traumatic experience of giving birth.
• Having to watch Bluey instead of films that interest you, substituting the child's interests for your own, etc. Fading into the background a little.

The benefits of parenthood are pretty widely celebrated so I won't repeat them for balance, but ultimately each person has to weigh things up and answer the question "is it worth it for me?", there being no right or wrong answers.

I never wanted to be a parent, never played a parent to a doll as a kid, just zero interest. I'm happy to put that love into my partner and friends instead. I have a couple of friends who've had a child and whilst we definitely lost something in our relationship, I try to maintain what we have left. That means finding ways to adapt to their schedules, taking a polite interest in their child and not rubbing in certain freedoms that I enjoy that they do not. Giving them space to talk about the aspects of their lives that are hard and helping them find joy in those that are rewarding. Basically, not being a dick.

I don’t think you necessarily need to avoid ‘rubbing in certain freedoms that they do not’ unless you do it gleefully and deliberately.

 

[existentialist]

If there was some reliable way to skip the parenthood bit and just go straight to grandparent I'd be happy with that.

Just marry someone who's already got kids! (still no guarantees, mind...)

 

[pbsmooth]

As people mentioned, nowadays we're allowed to discuss the downsides of parenthood. I haven't read through all four pages of replies but some reasons I haven't seen mentioned, are:

• Whilst children bring something to the relationship, such as new conversation topics and bonding over parenthood, the parents' attention is split between their partner and their child. It can be hard to give your partner as much time and attention.
• Other relationships can also be affected. It's hard to find time for friends when you're parenting, especially if they don't have children themselves. Interests diverge.
• Physical changes and potentially traumatic experience of giving birth.
• Having to watch Bluey instead of films that interest you, substituting the child's interests for your own, etc. Fading into the background a little.

The benefits of parenthood are pretty widely celebrated so I won't repeat them for balance, but ultimately each person has to weigh things up and answer the question "is it worth it for me?", there being no right or wrong answers.

I never wanted to be a parent, never played a parent to a doll as a kid, just zero interest. I'm happy to put that love into my partner and friends instead. I have a couple of friends who've had a child and whilst we definitely lost something in our relationship, I try to maintain what we have left. That means finding ways to adapt to their schedules, taking a polite interest in their child and not rubbing in certain freedoms that I enjoy that they do not. Giving them space to talk about the aspects of their lives that are hard and helping them find joy in those that are rewarding. Basically, not being a dick.

I think you're looking at it a bit too clinically to be honest. the whole point is few people in their right minds would sign up for having kids when you list out what it means and all the changes and negatives - but the reality actually contains so many positives for most people that it all goes out the window. it's not an entirely rational situation. the whole cliche of 'they can be a complete shit... but then they just smile and all is forgiven' is very true imho.

 

[furluxor]

I think you're looking at it a bit too clinically to be honest. the whole point is few people in their right minds would sign up for having kids when you list out what it means and all the changes and negatives - but the reality actually contains so many positives for most people that it all goes out the window. it's not an entirely rational situation. the whole cliche of 'they can be a complete shit... but then they just smile and all is forgiven' is very true imho.

Hmm, I cannot agree. I've heard this before from people (usually older members of the extended family) who weren't comfortable with my choice not to have children, perhaps they were worrying that I was or would be secretly unhappy.

I agree that it's not an entirely rational business, and we certainly get a hormonal injection to make us enjoy parenthood once we're there, but the problem is that it doesn't work that way for everyone. The "just go for it and then you'll find you love it" philosophy comes from the time when people could not talk about not loving it. Then there's also the sunk cost - what's the point of looking back?

There is always the option to have children later (including adoption). If on the balance it doesn't seem like a good idea, maybe it isn't. In my experience, people who want children feel that the benefits outweigh the negatives, even if they look at the situation rationally. And people who don't shouldn't be prodded in that direction by well-meaning parents. Just because it worked out for you doesn't mean that it wouldn't ruin someone's life.

 

[mentalchik]

That's what I see too and my friends kids are all grown up and still constantly ringing their parents with drama the parents are expected to get involved with.

never happens with my grown up kids

 

[mentalchik]

It would be very interesting to know how many actually people feel like this, either openly or inwardly. You'd have to balance it against those in the same age group who feel regretful that they didn't have kids. There is bound to be some grass is always greener thinking, either way.

I have never regretted having mine.

 

[Flavour]

I'm 38 and it's quite interesting to see how nearly all of my old mates in England have got kids, many of them more than 1, though my friends in Italy of the same age... totally different. Almost nobody has kids

 

[pbsmooth]

Hmm, I cannot agree. I've heard this before from people (usually older members of the extended family) who weren't comfortable with my choice not to have children, perhaps they were worrying that I was or would be secretly unhappy.

I agree that it's not an entirely rational business, and we certainly get a hormonal injection to make us enjoy parenthood once we're there, but the problem is that it doesn't work that way for everyone. The "just go for it and then you'll find you love it" philosophy comes from the time when people could not talk about not loving it. Then there's also the sunk cost - what's the point of looking back?

There is always the option to have children later (including adoption). If on the balance it doesn't seem like a good idea, maybe it isn't. In my experience, people who want children feel that the benefits outweigh the negatives, even if they look at the situation rationally. And people who don't shouldn't be prodded in that direction by well-meaning parents. Just because it worked out for you doesn't mean that it wouldn't ruin someone's life.

I’m not prodding anyone in any direction and that wasn’t the point of my post. Anyone doesn’t want kids that’s of course fine by me. I was merely countering the idea you put forward that it was about weighing up a long list of pros and cons.

I was in the not bothered camp and then met someone who was much more keen to have kids. We had kids and the posts above are my experience - highs, lows and change to your life but I’ve realised the highs, for me, outweigh any lows. And the love is like no other. But that’s just my experience and certainly still wouldn’t be trying to convince anyone to have kids.

 

[marty21]

We tried for kids , didn't work out . We are fine without , it does mean we can spoil ourselves more .

 

[marty21]

I should be used to it by now , but it still grates when I meet new people IRL & they insist on asking if I have kids.

 

[T & P]

I’m going to be lazy/ inconsiderate enough not to read the thread before jumping in, but from my (and my partner’s) point of view, ‘why do people still want kids’ would be as much of a valid question.

 

[Epona]

Would going extinct if the birth-rate falls dramatically be such a bad thing anyway?
(Probably for a different thread mind, but I find it interesting as a hypothetical concept to think about).

 

[Humberto]

Would going extinct if the birth-rate falls dramatically be such a bad thing anyway?
(Probably for a different thread mind, but I find it interesting as a hypothetical concept to think about).

There's dumps of radioactive waste and critical nuclear facilities that would cause immense damage if we ceased to exist. I imagine.

 

[Epona]

There's dumps of radioactive waste and critical nuclear facilities that would cause immense damage if we ceased to exist. I imagine.

Worrying about the shit that we have produced as a species isn't a particularly compelling reason for wanting our species to continue.

I mean I just don't feel like I have a stake in the long term survival of humanity - sure I want things to be OK during my lifetime, and I imagine people with children want things to be OK for their kids and grandkids, but beyond that it doesn't seem like the continuation of the human race in general into centuries in the future is something that we should be that concerned/upset about.

IMO.

 

[Epona]

I might just be feeling a little nihilistic tonight tbh, but I'm not sure being overly concerned about humanity's long term survival prospects is necessarily the best thing for the rest of the life on the planet.
If that makes any sort of sense.

 

[Humberto]

Worrying about the shit that we have produced as a species isn't a particularly compelling reason for wanting our species to continue.

I mean I just don't feel like I have a stake in the long term survival of humanity - sure I want things to be OK during my lifetime, and I imagine people with children want things to be OK for their kids and grandkids, but beyond that it doesn't seem like the continuation of the human race in general into centuries in the future is something that we should be that concerned/upset about.

IMO.

I feel our progenitors had an immense drive to leave things for 'posterity'.

Now they couldn't give less fucks. Ideology I think.

 

[brogdale]

I think the same amount of people don't want kids now as didn't want kids in the past. I don't think that's changed.

The demographic stats don't really support that impression. The E&W total fertility rate* is genuinely falling, particularly if you take a longer term perspective. The TRF has also been below replacement level, (2.1 children/woman - pink line on graph), since the early 1970s, meaning that any population growth is going to be from net immigration rather than 'natural growth'.

Though, in support of your observation, until fairly recently, (2016), there had not been great change since the early 1970s, but the decline in TRF over the last 8 years has been significant and the subject of MSM reporting.




• The number of children that would be born to a woman if she were to live to the end of her childbearing years and bear children in accordance with age-specific fertility rates currently observed. The reference period is three years preceding the survey.

 

[Poot]

The demographic stats don't really support that impression. The E&W total fertility rate* is genuinely falling, particularly if you take a longer term perspective. The TRF has also been below replacement level, (2.1 children/woman - pink line on graph), since the early 1970s, meaning that any population growth is going to be from net immigration rather than 'natural growth'.

Though, in support of your observation, until fairly recently, (2016), there had not been great change since the early 1970s, but the decline in TRF over the last 8 years has been significant and the subject of MSM reporting.



View attachment 455828
• The number of children that would be born to a woman if she were to live to the end of her childbearing years and bear children in accordance with age-specific fertility rates currently observed. The reference period is three years preceding the survey.

I was more speaking from an emotional point of view. Some people still have children despite not wanting them, for all sorts of reasons. But that number has fallen considerably as your statistics show. So the number of people who don't want children is the same, regardless of whether they have them or not. People just have more choice.

I imagine there were many, many resentful parents in olden times who felt they couldn't voice their utter horror as another unwanted pregnancy revealed itself.

 

[Athos]

.

 

[kebabking]

All three of my children have managed to get shit on my face.

And that's I've got to say about that.

(I've enjoyed them enormously, and pretty much nothing is more enjoyable without them than with them - but I am beginning to think that, given what the post-apocolyptic hellscape the world is going to look like in 30 years, I may not have done them a favour by having them...)