Elon Musk - news and discussion

[kabbes]

What we've actually seen is a gesture that can be interpreted as a deliberate salute or an awkward expression of thanks. The "that's what he felt like doing" suffices as an explanation for either option.

Yes it does. Which means that we don’t need to treat motive as any kind of mysterious variable to be understood. We can take motive off the table and see the thing itself for what it most appears to be and what is consistent with his other patterns of behaviour.

Shorn of your expectations, teuchter, what does he appear to be doing? Twice? What is his facial expression? What is the complete gesture?

Now, what is the zoomed-out context? What is his response to the furore? What do we know about his politics?

 

[JimW]

Read the arguments and watched the clip a couple more times and still think it wasn't supposed to be a Nazi salute. The lean back at the end doesn't fit. Or maybe he's just as shit at them as he is at everything else.
That's not being in denial, it's simply how it strikes me.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Read the arguments and watched the clip a couple more times and still think it wasn't supposed to be a Nazi salute. The lean back at the end doesn't fit. Or maybe he's just as shit at them as he is at everything else.
That's not being in denial, it's simply how it strikes me.

It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't tbh. He's a racist, Nazi piece of shit either way.

 

[kabbes]

Read the arguments and watched the clip a couple more times and still think it wasn't supposed to be a Nazi salute. The lean back at the end doesn't fit. Or maybe he's just as shit at them as he is at everything else.
That's not being in denial, it's simply how it strikes me.

So be it. In which case, I don’t know what it was. It certainly doesn’t resemble any kind of “my love to you” gesture. At all. So if it isn’t the Nazi salute then I’m left with an unsolved mystery.

 

[JimW]

It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't tbh. He's a racist, Nazi piece of shit either way.

Yep.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So be it. In which case, I don’t know what it was. It certainly doesn’t resemble any kind of “my love to you” gesture. At all. So if it isn’t the Nazi salute then I’m left with an unsolved mystery.

It's a brachial tic.

 

[inva]

So be it. In which case, I don’t know what it was. It certainly doesn’t resemble any kind of “my love to you” gesture. At all. So if it isn’t the Nazi salute then I’m left with an unsolved mystery.

The gesture corresponds completely with the words he speaks at the same time. It may be as some have argued he was using that as cover, but either way there's really no possible mystery.

 

[moochedit]

I had no idea that one of his many kids is trans. She's not particularly fond of her father's recent actions according to her social. calling him out over his nazi salutes... and i assume she might have some questions for dad over his new bestie's stance on gender.

I don't think they are on speaking terms anyway.

 

[JimW]

So be it. In which case, I don’t know what it was. It certainly doesn’t resemble any kind of “my love to you” gesture. At all. So if it isn’t the Nazi salute then I’m left with an unsolved mystery.

He had that silly dance the other time. He's just awkward as well as a fascist shit.

 

[JimW]

IIRC his daughter being trans set him off on the "woke mind virus" tilt.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

IIRC his daughter being trans set him off on the "woke mind virus" tilt.

Yeah cos him selecting only males in IVF to produce 12 sons without ever having sex is just reasonable behaviour.

 

[Petcha]

I don't think they are on speaking terms anyway.

I think it's quite telling she uses Threads and not X. She seems pretty cool though. Must be a surreal position to find yourself in as a 20yo.

 

[Spymaster]

You don't really address the point. What about Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, aka Tommy Robinson? What do you think of people who are openly Muslim-haters? What word would you rather use?

People who hate Muslims may be despicable racists but they're not necessarily Nazis. I don't know about SLY. Can Zionist supporters be Nazis? Whilst we're at it, are Zionists Nazis?

Again, do you think Trump and Farage are Nazis?

This propensity to demented rage and specious labelling is a large part of why the far left are so politically inconsequential.

 

[JimW]

Yeah cos him selecting only males in IVF to produce 12 sons without ever having sex is just reasonable behaviour.

Crikey. Recall that now you mention. What a marvellous social order, bringing such genius to prominence.

 

[JimW]

He's also so achingly dull, which should also be a crime.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

People who hate Muslims may be despicable racists but they're not necessarily Nazis. I don't know about SLY. Can Zionist supporters be Nazis? Whilst we're at it, are Zionists Nazis?

Again, do you think Trump and Farage are Nazis.

This propensity to demented rage and specious labelling is a large part of why the far left are so politically inconsequential.

Give me a word for SLY. Surely you must know a little about him? If not, perhaps look him up. And then consider that Elon Musk is a huge fan.

And come to think of it, his 'reproducing with IVF and no girls' policy fits nicely in with his Naziism, don't you think? A spot of eugenics to add into the mix.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I know it's fashionable amongst you lot to call anyone with right-wing views Nazi's and fascists. It's part of the reason why nobody takes the hard left seriously.

Is Trump a Nazi then?

What about Farage?

Farage's teacher at Dulwich College described him as a fascist.

 

[Spymaster]

Give me a word for SLY.

Racist.

Come on, I've played your game enough.

Are Trump and Farage Nazis?

 

[Rob Ray]

The gesture corresponds completely with the words he speaks at the same time. It may be as some have argued he was using that as cover, but either way there's really no possible mystery.

He doesn't speak them at the same time. He speaks them after.

Regardless, if you were in a pub with someone who'd been boring the pants off you with white supremacist talking points, trying to show you posts by outright neonazis on their phone etc for years, and they did that gesture at the telly as Elon Musk got up to speak, what would you think they were doing?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Come on, I've played your game enough.

You haven't, though. You refuse to.

 

[Spymaster]

You haven't, though. You refuse to.

I just did.

You asked for a word for SLY and I said racist (albeit in edit)

Your turn. Are Trump and Farage Nazis?

 

[teuchter]

Yes it does. Which means that we don’t need to treat motive as any kind of mysterious variable to be understood. We can take motive off the table and see the thing itself for what it most appears to be and what is consistent with his other patterns of behaviour.

Shorn of your expectations, teuchter, what does he appear to be doing? Twice? What is his facial expression? What is the complete gesture?

Now, what is the zoomed-out context? What is his response to the furore? What do we know about his politics?

His response is to indirectly deny that it was a nazi salute. He's called it a "dirty tricks" campaign by the left (or something like that) and not commented further as far as I know.

This is entirely consistent with the behaviour we see all the time - he enjoys provoking people and feels relatively immune to public perception. If a certain number of people (who hate him anyway) want to say he's a Nazi he's not that bothered. He's not going to go to any great effort to change their minds, nor will he want to give them the satisfaction of seeing him have to go into full defensive mode.

You can say this all fits with the actions having been deliberate - but it also (to me) fits with them having been "innocent" but interpretable as deliberate.

Certainly, to me, viewed in the context of all his other behaviour (and politics) his response to the furore is in no way incompatible with his gestures having been innocent ones.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I just did.

You asked for a word for SLY and I said racist (albeit in edit)

Your turn. Are Trump and Farage Nazis?

I think it's fair comment to call both of them fascists. And Musk as well for that matter. But Musk has gone further than either in publicly supporting the violent, racist far-right.

To my delicate sensibilities, I think fascist is a more appropriate and useful term than nazi. But I'm not going to dictate what others say.

 

[Spymaster]

I think it's fair comment to call both of them fascists. And Musk as well for that matter.

Are all conservatives fascists then?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Are all conservatives fascists then?

no.

For example, Margaret Thatcher was not a fascist.

I know you like to paint people as blubbering Riks, but it's not as simple as that.

 

[ska invita]

Im still sracthing my head that anyone who isn't being willfully obtuse

no need to scratch, pushing right wing narratives on the boards, ideally winding people up in the process, is Spys default on urban and has been for years...why engage?
I

 

[Spymaster]

no.

For example, Margaret Thatcher was not a fascist.

Interesting.

What's your definition of fascist?

 

[Spymaster]

I think fascist is a more appropriate and useful term than nazi. But I'm not going to dictate what others say.

So actually you don't think he's a Nazi?

 

[kabbes]

His response is to indirectly deny that it was a nazi salute. He's called it a "dirty tricks" campaign by the left (or something like that) and not commented further as far as I know.

This is entirely consistent with the behaviour we see all the time - he enjoys provoking people and feels relatively immune to public perception. If a certain number of people (who hate him anyway) want to say he's a Nazi he's not that bothered. He's not going to go to any great effort to change their minds, nor will he want to give them the satisfaction of seeing him have to go into full defensive mode.

You can say this all fits with the actions having been deliberate - but it also (to me) fits with them having been "innocent" but interpretable as deliberate.

Certainly, to me, viewed in the context of all his other behaviour (and politics) his response to the furore is in no way incompatible with his gestures having been innocent ones.

Fair enough.

In unrelated news, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying?

 

[inva]

He doesn't speak them at the same time. He speaks them after.

Well ok if you want to split hairs not literally the same time, but the two are clearly related again whether because that's what he meant or as plausible deniability.

Regardless, if you were in a pub with someone who'd been boring the pants off you with white supremacist talking points, trying to show you posts by outright neonazis on their phone etc for years, and they did that gesture at the telly as Elon Musk got up to speak, what would you think they were doing?

I'm not certain in my opinion about what Musk was doing and don't feel any need to be, although I lean more towards it not being intended as a nazi salute. I honestly don't know what I would think if I saw someone in the pub deliver Musk's speech with the same mannerisms, the context is too different.