Elon Musk - news and discussion
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Humberto
anthropocene participant
Fascist in the sense that he boosts the online alt-right, who propagandise racist doctrines and condone associated radicalism. There's overlaps between that lot and right wing populism with it's 'anti-wokeism'. Musk gleefully inhabits that zone. We then end up with groups like The Proud Boys gaining recruits. Things like virulent and conspiratorial anti-leftism go with the territory. As do attempts to blur any differentiation with more mainstream right wingers too, although there are differences.
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Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Yeah tbh whether he is a perfect fit for the words Nazi or fascist is a bit of an irrelevant conversation (the former is history and the latter is whiffly in any case). They're used as shorthand in most of these posts, not as technical terms.
What he does is support the far-right ecosystem all the way through, and the worst elements of that ecosystem think of him as one of them, an impression he has never once rejected.
What he does is support the far-right ecosystem all the way through, and the worst elements of that ecosystem think of him as one of them, an impression he has never once rejected.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
She’s knows him better than you or me so I think probably worth listening to.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
This would be correct if the discussion at hand was about whether or not Musk is a cunt. Most of us would agree on that.
But it's not. It's about whether or not he intentionally served up a couple of Nazi salutes, and multiple assertions that he IS a Nazi, and a well-known one at that.
In the present context it's absolutely relevant.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I'm sure they'll just be scratching their top lips whilst pointing at shit, over there...
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Here's Elon actually doing a heart to the crowd gesture
View attachment elon heart gesture.mp4
What would make it unambigous for you?
View attachment elon heart gesture.mp4
What would make it unambigous for you?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Doing it whilst riding on top of a panzer tank whilst heading into Poland sporting a swastika armband probably.
tommers
It was... Rebekah Vardy's account
He's just winding people up. He means the Buddhist swastika. He's autistic.
Look, here's a picture of Obama next to a tank. Is he a nazi too?
He went to the inauguration, so yes.
LakieLady
Well-Known Member
I have some sympathy with this view, but I also think fash are like buses: there'll be another one along in a minute.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The words the gesture was accompanied by.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
JimW
支那暗杀团
Like weeding the garden.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
All this talk of whether he “intended” it or not is a very naive conception of action as a unidirectional flow from conscious, planned motivation to conscious, planned action. Sure, some human behaviour is precisely that but most isn’t. You don’t even have to delve into complicated psychological theories either. It’s why body language is so revealing, for example. What does it mean to “intend” an action? Is it intentional if the action you are performing is entirely consistent with what you’re thinking and accurately signals your beliefs but is not pre-planned?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
The thing about that wing of the extreme right is they don't have to specifically adhere to the views of the NSDAP or even of the Partito Nazionale Fascista to adopt use of the fascist salute, that end of things adopts all kinds of actions and symbolism simply because it's in the ballpark (and usually they enjoy the taboo breaking element). They do the same with Norse symbolism without being Norse, Old English paganism while knowing fuck all about it etc etc.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Of course, but correct me if I'm wrong, the MAGA crowd didn't interpret it as a Nazi salute either, that was people watching further afield, be they delighted or appalled. And the audience is part of the whole gesture.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Right. Of course the actual Nazi party was a specific, historically-located, spatially-located phenomenon that is, in some sense, meaningless outside its very specific context. But at the same time, metaphor is how we understand everything and in a lay discussion, it seems entirely reasonable to apply this one to an individual who is spending massive funds, his own time and his social capital to support parties of violent ethno-nationalism and crowing about the results
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
(And is a nasty eugenicist to boot!)
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Sure, the immediate crowd construct their own meaning, which is partly a function of the context they find themselves in, partly a function of what they bring to that encounter, partly to do with what they actually see and what they pay attention to. But the audience includes everyone watching, not just those present. And that wider audience sure noticed. Besides, whether or not an audience pick up on body language doesn’t really change whether or not the body language was present.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This must be what it was like in the early 1930s in Germany…people just in denial about what’s clearly happening around them…
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
It's hard to believe that one of the reasons people are doubting he gave two fascist salutes is because he was shit at giving two fascist salutes.
Tesla sales declined last year for the first time, especially in Europe. Expect that trend to continue - if I had a Tesla I'd be looking at trading it in as soon as I could, just too embarrassing to be associated with that prick.
Even aside from his politics, apparently he fired a load of key engineers as part of a cost cutting measure so development of new models has basically stopped as a result.
Tesla's top engineering exec, who led development of critical technologies, has resigned after 18 years, adding to concerns about who will succeed Elon Musk as CEO
Tesla's top engineering executive Drew Baglino resigned from the company after leading development of its batteries, motors and energy products.
Driving away skilled engineers is also how you get embarrassing shit like the cybertruck.
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