Elon Musk - news and discussion

[Petcha]

Interesting.

What's your definition of fascist?

Definitions like this are always going to come down to semantics and subjective opinions.

We currently have some cunt being sentenced for cutting the throats of a few kids and in possession of Qaeda's bible who is apparently not considered to be a terrorist. Go figure.

I can ask AI what fascism is if you like?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Interesting.

What's your definition of fascist?

I've answered this on here in detail in the past, so you can do a search for it if you're interested. It's why I have characterised Trump as a 'wannabe fascist dictator', whether or not his regime actually ends up being functionally fascist.

 

[Rob Ray]

I honestly don't know what I would think if I saw someone in the pub deliver Musk's speech with the same mannerisms, the context is too different.

The context is deliberately offset just a bit to illuminate. And I reckon the vast majority of people would know exactly what to think once the "it's a billionaire" and "it's a weird situation" bits have been removed from the equation. Because we've all met that kind of guy, and we know very well what they are.

 

[Petcha]

Here's AI's view. But it's a complex definition for a complex man. Personally I think he's very much on the spectrum and seems to go where the breeze blows.

I wouldn't however, argue with Trump's analysis of him as a genius. I do think he is. In a fucked fucked up way.

Whether Elon Musk is a fascist is a complex and debated topic. Here's a breakdown of the arguments:

Arguments suggesting potential fascist leanings:

• Support for right-wing figures: Musk has publicly endorsed right-wing politicians, including Donald Trump, and has made statements that align with right-wing ideologies.
• Controversial actions: Some of his actions, such as appearing to give a fascist salute at a Trump rally, have raised concerns about his political leanings.
• Authoritarian tendencies: His management style at Tesla and SpaceX has been described by some as authoritarian, raising concerns about potential abuse of power.

Arguments against labeling him as a fascist:

• Lack of core fascist beliefs: Musk doesn't explicitly espouse core fascist beliefs like racial superiority, ultranationalism, or totalitarian control.
• Business focus: His primary focus is on business ventures, and his political views may be secondary to his entrepreneurial goals.
• Misinterpretation of actions: Some of his actions, like the alleged fascist salute, could be misinterpreted or taken out of context.

Conclusion:
While some of Musk's actions and statements raise concerns about potential fascist leanings, it's difficult to definitively label him as a fascist. His views and actions are complex and multifaceted, and require careful consideration and analysis.

 

[Spymaster]

I've answered this on here in detail in the past, so you can do a search for it if you're interested. It's why I have characterised Trump as a 'wannabe fascist dictator', whether or not his regime actually ends up being functionally fascist.

Ok. But you agree that fascists are not necessarily Nazis.

What makes Musk a Nazi, but not Trump, Thatcher or Farage?

 

[inva]

The context is deliberately offset just a bit to illuminate. And I reckon the vast majority of people would know exactly what to think once the "it's Elon" and "it's a weird situation" bits have been removed from the equation.

But it doesn't illuminate does it? The gestures you might make during a theatrical political speech are very different to in the pub. Any pubs I've been in anyway.

 

[Petcha]

But it doesn't illuminate does it? The gestures you might make during a theatrical political speech are very different to in the pub. Any pubs I've been in anyway.

If you observed his off the cuff performance during the pre-rally the night before, when Trump summoned him on stage, he's clearly not all there when it comes to public speaking.

Playing devil's advocate here... but he stuttered and stumbled though a minute or so before Trump saved him and ushered him off the stage. Fuck knows... with the nazi thing. a nervous tic?

Although as his trans daughter said online, once - ok, but twice?

 

[JimW]

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me a fiver for a pint.

 

[Rob Ray]

But it doesn't illuminate does it? The gestures you might make during a theatrical political speech are very different to in the pub. Any pubs I've been in anyway.

You wouldn't make that gesture anywhere. But a certain type of person would, and in any other context you would know what they meant by it when they did it. And we know he is that type of person. That's the point.

 

[JimW]

once - ok, but twice?

Well, why not twice if he didn't think that's what he was doing?

 

[inva]

You wouldn't make that gesture anywhere. But a certain type of person would. And we know he is that type of person. That's the point.

Obviously we disagree and we're back where we started

 

[JimW]

Sooner someone kills him and puts this argument to bed, the better.

 

[Petcha]

Well, why not twice if he didn't think that's what he was doing?

I don't think he's all there. No idea. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here.

I don't think it'll be long before this administration falls apart anyway. Well at least Trump and Musk. They're both too volatile.

 

[Rob Ray]

Obviously we disagree and we're back where we started

Do you disagree he's that kind of person? There's been quite a lot of evidence provided that he very much is.

 

[Humberto]

You sure that's wise JimW ?

 

[JimW]

I don't think he's all there. No idea. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here.

I don't think it'll be long before this administration falls apart anyway. Well at least Trump and Musk. They're both too volatile.

With Vance and Thiel waiting in the wings as the same type of duo only less flaky.

 

[JimW]

You sure that's wise JimW ?

You of all posters should surely understand the need for the wrath of heaven to be visited on the unrighteous.

 

[inva]

Do you disagree he's that kind of person? There's been quite a lot of evidence provided that he very much is.

I've already said I think it's plausible he intended it as a fascist salute.

I just personally think it's at least equally likely and probably more so that he didn't.

 

[Rob Ray]

I've already said I think it's plausible he intended it as a fascist salute.

I just personally think it's at least equally likely and probably more so that he didn't.

If you acknowledge he's a fascist then whether he "meant it" in that very moment (first one or when he went back for seconds) or not is, in practice, largely moot. He did it, it's in line with his beliefs, and it gave support and succor to the fascist wing of American politics.

 

[Petcha]

I think that bit in the AI post is quite critical. He is explicitly against totalitarian control, which is why he's been put in charge of basically getting rid of government control. He's a libertarian, much like Boris. That, alone, makes him quite the opposite of a fascist, no?

 

[xenon]

Sooner someone kills him and puts this argument to bed, the better.

Just saying, again, so it's on record. He'll be dead within 5 years. Drug overdose, suspected suicide. Man's heading for a crash IMO.

 

[Rob Ray]

I think that bit in the AI post is quite critical. He is explicitly against totalitarian control, which is why he's been put in charge of basically getting rid of government control. He's a libertarian, much like Boris. That, alone, makes him quite the opposite of a fascist, no?

What Elon Musk says and what Elon Musk does has been shown quite comprehensively to be completely different things. This is the man who declared himself a free speech absolutist, let's not forget. What he does is quite consistent, he supports fascists and the farthest-right major political party he can find in any given situation. And does his level best to fuck up business rivals, into which any disparaging comments about AI fit nicely.

 

[editor]

I think that bit in the AI post is quite critical. He is explicitly against totalitarian control, which is why he's been put in charge of basically getting rid of government control. He's a libertarian, much like Boris. That, alone, makes him quite the opposite of a fascist, no?

Why are you arguing points from a fucking AI article?

 

[Petcha]

What Elon Musk says and what Elon Musk does has been shown quite comprehensively to be completely different things. This is the man who declared himself a free speech absolutist, let's not forget. What he does is quite consistent, he supports fascists and the farthest-right major political party he can find in any given situation. And does his level best to fuck up business rivals, into which any disparaging comments about AI fit nicely.

He generally hates being controlled by central government. Detests it. The mark of a fascist is someone who loves it. So, by definition, he's not. He's a fucking dickhead, but I don't think falls under the 'Fascist' label.

 

[Petcha]

Why are you arguing points from a fucking AI article?

Because there were some fair points in there

 

[inva]

If you acknowledge he's a fascist then whether he "meant it" in that very moment (first one or when he went back for seconds) or not is, in practice, largely moot. He did it, it's in line with his beliefs, and it gave support and succor to the fascist wing of American politics.

As teuchter has said it's not meaningless whether he meant it or not though in terms of what it means for wider society if someone can covertly or openly perform a fascist salute on a mainstream political stage like that or not.

I'm not actually sure if I'd describe Musk as a fascist although he definitely courts them but it's probably best we don't start on that one.

 

[Petcha]

Why are you arguing points from a fucking AI article?

Would you not agree? Is he a Fascist or a Liberterian? There's quite a difference. He wants less government, not more.

 

[Rob Ray]

He generally hates being controlled by central government. Detests it. The mark of a fascist is someone who loves it. So, by definition, he's not. He's a fucking dickhead, but I don't think falls under the 'Fascist' label.

The mark of a corporate fascist is someone who maximises the extent, reach and freedom to operate of their business empire while making a direct accomodation with the State's needs. Which he does. As Mussolini puts it:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

 

[Rob Ray]

He wants less government, not more.

He wants less government of him. He doesn't care in the slightest about more government on say, the Mexican border, or against trans people. I really can't stress enough you should not be reading what he says, you should be watching what he does.

 

[Kid_Eternity]