Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[D'wards]

If you watch Ross Kemp extreme worlds. There's an episode where he goes to a march/counter demonstration in Texas. He's standing on the sidelines just observing and basically has to be removed from the area by security because a small section of antifa try to attack him just because of his appearance.

Yep, that's what happened to me

 

[sim667]

Shows you what a bag of bollocks trying to revise history is. Statues should remain in place.

The council plan was to move the statue a whole 15 meters away to a museum. I see no issue with that, all around the world statues of icons representing ideology that are no longer valid to modern societal attributes are moved to more suitable places.

 

[rekil]

If you watch Ross Kemp extreme worlds. There's an episode where he goes to a march/counter demonstration in Texas. He's standing on the sidelines just observing and basically has to be removed from the area by security because a small section of antifa try to attack him just because of his appearance.

Uh huh.

 

[butchersapron]

Shows you what a bag of bollocks trying to revise history is. Statues should remain in place.

When people see a statue to Cecil Rhodes, but don't know who he was, it takes a few moments on a modern phone to find out. That way, his infamy never dies.

Statues can be be strange sometimes. In Glasgow there is a statue to Ewen Cameron, 17th Chief of the Clan Cameron (the clan chief is known as Cameron of Locheil ,or just 'Lochiel'., who stopped the Highlanders from sacking the city in 1745. He was known as the 'Gentle Lochiel'. Glasgow didn't rise for Charles, so Lochiel was their enemy, yet, the City had the grace to honour him for what he did for them.

I was at at a do at Achncarry castle, to celebrate Lochiel's 60th birthday. Also present was an English Lord (Up for the shooting.), who mentioned that he was the fourth of his title. Lochiel replied, deadpan, it is nice when the title carries on, I'm the 26th Lochiel myself.

Revising history is one of the most important parts of history. An entirely respectable undertaking.

 

[not-bono-ever]

kick over the statues

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep, that's what happened to me

bet you ross kemp didn't go on about his experience for as long as you've droned on about yours.

 

[ffsear]

Uh huh.

View attachment 113778

ahhhhh, i'm a nazi too because i voted tory! classic!

 

[not-bono-ever]

Wearing a what ?

ETA, you changed yer post

 

[8den]

kick over the statues

Baltimore removed all 4 of its Confederate statues overnight

I look forward to WS marching on Baltimore in protest.

 

[bimble]

If you watch Ross Kemp extreme worlds. There's an episode where he goes to a march/counter demonstration in Texas. He's standing on the sidelines just observing and basically has to be removed from the area by security because a small section of antifa try to attack him just because of his appearance.

Maybe 'standing on the sidelines just observing' isn't really a good idea, better to stay home if you intend to do that, with a camera crew.

 

[not-bono-ever]

statues


are usually someone elses history, not mine/yours

Why do people put traffic cones on statues? - BBC News

 

[D'wards]

bet you ross kemp didn't go on about his experience for as long as you've droned on about yours.

Ooh, get you

 

[DotCommunist]

If you watch Ross Kemp extreme worlds. There's an episode where he goes to a march/counter demonstration in Texas. He's standing on the sidelines just observing and basically has to be removed from the area by security because a small section of antifa try to attack him just because of his appearance.

if only he had turned up with phil in crack mode as his wingman, shit would really have gone down.

 

[hot air baboon]

if only herr hitler had stuck to selling his scribbles for sustenance.

 

[emanymton]

If you watch Ross Kemp extreme worlds. There's an episode where he goes to a march/counter demonstration in Texas. He's standing on the sidelines just observing and basically has to be removed from the area by security because a small section of antifa try to attack him just because of his appearance.

You sure he wasn't attacked just for being Ross Kemp?

 

[butchersapron]

Kemp has been a pretty high profile uaf supporter in the past.

 

[rekil]

Must be this one.

Spoiler: Kemp

 

[sim667]

Apparently the Nazi group that organised the Charlotteville protests have a UK chapter

Nazi Group Linked to Charlottesville Attack Has a UK Chapter

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

 

[butchersapron]

Apparently the Nazi group that organised the Charlotteville protests have a UK chapter

Nazi Group Linked to Charlottesville Attack Has a UK Chapter

They didn't organise it.

And that is clearly a one-man 'chapter' made of an internet man.

 

[YouSir]

I don't understand how, or why, people try to analyse physical action as a political or philosophical act, I'm not sure everyone involved in it does at any rate. Even if you believe that some Fash or fellow travellers can be talked to and brought back from where they are (and I do) that's a moot point when it comes to actual, street level action. The only question there is what effect their presence has on a community and what measures are needed to limit it, I don't understand how anyone with any experience of the world can honestly try to break that down into a comfortable political talking point to be chewed over with sorry recriminations from a safe distance. When these people go out to march, or more usually just act up in their day to day lives, they're not setting out to convert people, or convince people of their righteousness, they're trying to assert their power, they do it solely to make themselves feel bigger and to intimidate and threaten the people around them. Saying no violence in return as a personal position might feel morally right to an individual, it might even be morally right to an individual but it's still a myopic position and a selfish one to impose on other people.

Try to impose the same thinking on others, imagine it's your family, your friends or your kids who are walking around that area when the Fash are out. Imagine it's them being told they deserve to die, that they're less than human, that they should be lynched or thrown in gas chambers. Imagine that it's them being physically attacked for the colour of their skin, or their religion or for believing that Fash thinking is wrong. And that'll all happen even without them being involved in any counter protest, it'll happen just because they exist. It happens every day in fact. To condemn people who take physical action in return, or who defend those who are attacked in that way is, tbh, a fucking disgusting moral imposition to make on anyone especially if you're taking your stand from a safe distance where you're fairly sure you won't face the same.

Look at what bimble posted from that member of the clergy, that's a decent position for any pacifist to take if they hold their beliefs honestly. You don't have to fetishise violence or think it's good or get a buzz off of it. You just have to accept that your moral stand (if that's really what it is) isn't viable or reasonable for everyone and perhaps even acknowledge that, if it were, it wouldn't just be the philosophically peaceful counter-protestors who'd get a beating for it. If Fash felt they could act with impunity on the streets, whenever and wherever they are, it'd be whole communities who'd have to live with it. Day in and day out.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't understand how, or why, people try to analyse physical action as a political or philosophical act, I'm not sure everyone involved in it does at any rate. Even if you believe that some Fash or fellow travellers can be talked to and brought back from where they are (and I do) that's a moot point when it comes to actual, street level action. The only question there is what effect their presence on a community and what measures are needed to limit it, I don't understand how anyone with any experience of the world can honestly try to break that down into a comfortable political talking point to be chewed over with sorry recriminations from a safe distance. When these people go out to march, or more usually just act up in their day to day lives, they're not setting out to convert people, or convince people of their righteousness, they're trying to assert their power, they do it solely to make themselves feel bigger and to intimidate and threaten the people around them. Saying no violence in return as a personal position might feel morally right to an individual, it might even be morally right to an individual but it's still a myopic position and a selfish one to impose on other people.

Try to impose the same thinking on others, imagine it's your family, your friends or your kids who are walking around that area when the Fash are out. Imagine it's them being told they deserve to die, that they're less than human, that they should be lynched or thrown in gas chambers. Imagine that it's them being physically attacked for the colour of their skin, or their religion or for believing that Fash thinking is wrong. And that'll all happen even without them being involved in any counter protest, it'll happen just because they exist. It happens every day in fact. To condemn people who take physical action in return, or who defend those who are attacked in that way is, tbh, a fucking disgusted moral imposition to make on anyone especially if you're taking your stand from a safe distance where you're fairly sure you won't face the same.

Look at what bimble posted from that member of the clergy, that's a decent position for any pacifist to take if they hold their beliefs honestly. You don't have to fetishise violence or think it's good or get a buzz off of it. You just have to accept that your moral stand (if that's really what it is) isn't viable or reasonable for everyone and perhaps even acknowledge that, if it were, it wouldn't just be the philosophically peaceful counter-protestors who'd get a beating for it. If Fash felt they could act with impunity on the streets, whenever and wherever they are, it'd be whole communities who'd have to live with it. Day in and day out.

well said

 

[bimble]

.. imagine it's your family, your friends or your kids who are walking around that area when the Fash are out. Imagine it's them being told they deserve to die, that they're less than human, that they should be lynched or thrown in gas chambers. Imagine that it's them being physically attacked for the colour of their skin, or their religion or for believing that Fash thinking is wrong. And that'll all happen even without them being involved in any counter protest, it'll happen just because they exist. ..

That's the thing. Is it maybe just that the people being so concerned about 'violence on both sides' find it impossible to imagine themselves and their family living in terror or being killed by these folks? Seems like that sometimes, that it is a total failure to grasp what the danger is because you are able to think it has nothing to do with you.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.

Here’s the list of those appointed to the Religious Advisory Council. These are the religious leaders who supported Trump’s election and signed on to be Trump’s advisors in spiritual matters:

· Michele Bachmann – Former Congresswoman

· A.R. Bernard – Senior Pastor and CEO, Christian Cultural Center

· Mark Burns – Pastor, Harvest Praise and Worship Center

· Tim Clinton – President, American Association of Christian Counselors

· Kenneth and Gloria Copeland – Founders, Kenneth Copeland Ministries

· James Dobson – Author, Psychologist, and Host, My Family Talk

· Jerry Falwell, Jr. – President, Liberty University

· Ronnie Floyd – Senior Pastor, Cross Church

· Jentezen Franklin – Senior Pastor, Free Chapel

· Jack Graham – Senior Pastor, Prestonwood Baptist Church

· Harry Jackson – Senior Pastor, Hope Christian Church

· Robert Jeffress – Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church of Dallas

· David Jeremiah – Senior Pastor, Shadow Mountain Community Church

· Richard Land – President, Southern Evangelical Seminary

· James MacDonald – Founder and Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel

· Johnnie Moore – Author, President of The KAIROS Company

· Robert Morris – Senior Pastor, Gateway Church

· Tom Mullins – Senior Pastor, Christ Fellowship

· Ralph Reed – Founder, Faith and Freedom Coalition

· James Robison – Founder, Life OUTREACH International

· Tony Suarez – Executive Vice President, National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference

· Jay Strack – President, Student Leadership University

· Paula White – Senior Pastor, New Destiny Christian Center

· Tom Winters – Attorney, Winters and King, Inc.

· Sealy Yates – Attorney, Yates, and Yates

President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.



President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

anton lavey more moral than anyone on that list

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

anton lavey more moral than anyone on that list

You might, very well have a point. At least there was some convergence between his actions and what came out of his mouth.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.



President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

not seeing many catholics on there either

 

[YouSir]

That's the thing. Is it maybe just that the people being so concerned about 'violence on both sides' find it impossible to imagine themselves and their family living in terror or being killed by these folks? Seems like that sometimes, that it is a total failure to grasp what the danger is because you are able to think it has nothing to do with you.

Being as generous as I can I do understand the impulse. For me violence is always wrong, I'm not a pacifist, but I do think that violent action makes everyone involved a bit less than they were before in some sense. That's my moral stance. That said I also think it's sometimes necessary, not good or positive, but necessary. Like when dealing with people who actively want to intimidate and brutalise others for no reason beyond their own hate fuelled delusions. It'd be nice to stand and say no one should ever lay a finger on anyone else, it'd be a good pure position to take, but as you say, doing that is just burying yourself in the safety of assuming the violence won't come to you or those around you, especially when you condemn everyone who acts rather than just following your own line. The moral impulse turns into narcissism almost.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

not seeing many catholics on there either

Or Jews, or Buddhists, certainly no Muslims. I don't I even see a Methodist on that list, but I might be wrong. It's all evangelicals.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or Jews, or Buddhists, certainly no Muslims. I don't I even see a Methodist on that list, but I might be wrong. It's all evangelicals.

they've all escaped from...