Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[YouSir]

anton lavey more moral than anyone on that list

Forget if it was posted here but the Satanists were out on the counter-protest, full black robes and all, bet that confused the KKK.

 

[Idris2002]

not seeing many catholics on there either

 

[bimble]

Being as generous as I can I do understand the impulse. For me violence is always wrong, I'm not a pacifist, but I do think that violent action makes everyone involved a bit less than they were before in some sense. That's my moral stance. That said I also think it's sometimes necessary, not good or positive, but necessary. Like when dealing with people who actively want to intimidate and brutalise others for no reason beyond their own hate fuelled delusions. It'd be nice to stand and say no one should ever lay a finger on anyone else, it'd be a good pure position to take, but as you say, doing that is just burying yourself in the safety of assuming the violence won't come to you or those around you, especially when you condemn everyone who acts rather than just following your own line. The moral impulse turns into narcissism almost.

I'd like there to be no need for violence at all, would be great if sheer numbers of people turning up to block and prevent marches / rallies/ meetings of the far right would be all it takes to send them packing every time, no need to fight just massive weight of numbers. That would be lovely, but look where we are, the fact is that people who show up to prevent the far right being able to proceed are quite literally risking their lives to do so.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[8den]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.



President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

Most of Trump's Religious and Spiritual Guidance comes from Southern Baptist extremist. Among them are people like Paula White, who practices "seed money" (essentially send her money and then Jesus will give you money) con artists so no surprises that Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" are as morally vacant as POTUS.

Trump’s Favorite Pastor Has Pretend Doctoral Degree and History With Bankruptcy, of Course

 

[rekil]

Mr. Bergoglio had no difficulty finding an accommodation with Videla and his babystealers so he can probably live with the likes of Trump. (Despite that bloody pic)

 

[Idris2002]

View attachment 113793

 

[bimble]

The jews that still stand by him in silence, inside the administration & out do make me sick the most of all.
Every Jewish member of Trump’s administration should resign

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Most of Trump's Religious and Spiritual Guidance comes from Southern Baptist extremist. Among them are people like Paula White, who practices "seed money" (essentially send her money and then Jesus will give you money) con artists so no surprises that Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" are as morally vacant as POTUS.

Trump’s Favorite Pastor Has Pretend Doctoral Degree and History With Bankruptcy, of Course

I had a neighbor who worked for James Dobson's Focus on the Family at their radio station here. She assured me that when the spiritual transformation of the country was complete I'd either have to convert, leave, or go to a camp to be converted. It came as no surprise when I found out that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists his group as an anti-LGBTQ hate group.

 

[CRI]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.



President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

I'd have been surprised actually if any had broken rank. Most on that list that I can see are at the Evangelical end, and quite a few of those folk are praying for the rapture to come asap. They probably think they struck it lucky with a President so keen to help with their plan.

 

[Pickman's model]

Most of Trump's Religious and Spiritual Guidance comes from Southern Baptist extremist. Among them are people like Paula White, who practices "seed money" (essentially send her money and then Jesus will give you money) con artists so no surprises that Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" are as morally vacant as POTUS.

Trump’s Favorite Pastor Has Pretend Doctoral Degree and History With Bankruptcy, of Course

how many times has trump gone bankrupt?

 

[rekil]

He has used bankruptcy as a business tactic that's all.

This should be a Trump free thread tbh. Otherwise it's just another for CRI to destroy.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

For the 'both sides are as bad as each other' brigade:

 

[extra dry]

An article on the timeline of the removal of Confederate Flags, and then statues, and the debate around these things and the anger it has stirred up, etc.

Whose Heritage? Public Symbols of the Confederacy

"Following the Charleston massacre, the Southern Poverty Law Center launched an effort to catalog and map Confederate place names and other symbols in public spaces, both in the South and across the nation. This study, while far from comprehensive, identified a total of 1,503.*

These include:

• 718 monuments and statues, nearly 300 of which are in Georgia, Virginia or North Carolina;
• 109 public schools named for Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis or other Confederate icons;
• 80 counties and cities named for Confederates;
• 9 official Confederate holidays in six states; and
• 10 U.S. military bases named for Confederates."

A load of work then, change names is easy, Bernie Towns and The Cities of Clinton, Bushville's, Trump Hamlets.

 

[Joe Reilly]

The jews that still stand by him in silence, inside the administration & out do make me sick the most of all.
Every Jewish member of Trump’s administration should resign

Interesting given the current controversy regarding revisionism the pastor neimoller link omits any mention of the communists: the first into the camps and the Nazis primary opposition. Seeing as how liberals seem to have reduced fascism to being only about race, with anti-fascism by turn presented as being pacifistic at core, this is entirely fitting.

 

[bimble]

On the other hand meanwhile (on nazi twitter at least) there is plenty being said about the antifascists being Communists.

 

[J Ed]

Media elite literally telling people as individuals to go and purchase food at a business owned by an ethnic minority instead of going and opposing fascists on the street. These are really stupid and also deeply unfunny people.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're the sort of liberal cunt that makes me puke. Horseshoe theory is a much-discredited piece of political theory that states equivalence between extremes - equivalence that can't actually be explicated or elucidated by adherents of the theory. Smacking such people in the mouth is an appropriate reaction to pedlars of bullshit, but no, Hertford wants to give them a pass from being physically-deterred. You liberal fuck.

 

[J Ed]

 

[ViolentPanda]

You don't seen to understand the point of physical force antifascism. The idea isn't to educate them; it's to deny them control of the streets. It's one important aspect of a multi-faceted response to the threat of the growth of fascism. Because, if they're allowed to control the streets, they'd become emboldened, appear strong and attract more and more to their ranks, and, in particular, present a significant risk of serious harm to many people in that area.

I suspect that Mr Hertford's acquaintance with racism and racist violence may be more fleeting than for some of us. I grew up hearing about how fascism - and communism - killed members of my family, and how my family had fought against supporters of fascism both here and in Ukraine. I also grew up seeing the police and officialdom treat my mates - who were a mix of Afro-Caribbean, West African, Hong Kong Chinese and Indians and Pakistanis - like shit, and made a decision in my teens not to stand by when it happened. As a result I got beaten up several times, but I learned that if you attack a fascist one-on-one, they invariably retreat. Plenty of times a group of half a dozen of us ran 20 or so "political soldiers" (now that's a fucking joke just by itself!) off of our own and neighbouring estates when they tried to sell their bullshit newspaper door-to-door. Hit them hard, and hit them over and over again, and they make a strategic decision that your area isn't "safe" for them. Sometimes violence is the only reasonable solution to the problem.

 

[NoXion]

Depending on how it is articulated, horseshoe theory can be one or more of the following politically motivated logical fallacies: golden mean, false equivalence, cherry picking and so on. It should be transparent as fuck really.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sounds like you never found it. BTW I've not suddenly lost my head because of charlotsville. This isn't new to most leftists, nor is your take-me-ball-home liberalism that thinks these people give a fuck about what you think

Yep. I've been hearing that liberal middle class bullshit all my adult life - this idea that if you expose a fascist to enlightened ideas, they'll convert to centre-left liberalism. It doesn't happen!

 

[CRI]

He has used bankruptcy as a business tactic that's all.

This should be a Trump free thread tbh. Otherwise it's just another for CRI to destroy.

Charming.

 

[J Ed]

Yep. I've been hearing that liberal middle class bullshit all my adult life - this idea that if you expose a fascist to enlightened ideas, they'll convert to centre-left liberalism. It doesn't happen!

Have you not seen the SNL clip I posted above? How could that not instantly change the mind of any political opponent?!?

 

[ViolentPanda]

An old friend of mine and her teenage daughter in Teen Vogue:

Here's What You Need to Know About Fascism

I haven't the heart to tell them that UAF is an SWP front.

PM me their contact details. I'll tell 'em!

 

[Pickman's model]

Charming.

 

[CRI]

Been away a bit. Anyone picked up on this yet?

ACLU of California Statement: White Supremacist Violence is Not Free Speech

ACLU has come in for criticism in the past for defending some real asshats. I remember when they took up the case of the KKK wanting to march through Skokie in the late 1970's. For those not aware, it's a predominately Jewish suburb of Chicago, with a high proportion of residents at the time being survivors of the Holocaust. They did quite a good TV film about it with Danny Kaye. We were shown it in High School Government class, and it was genuinely the first time most of the kids heard of the Holocaust. Didn't come up in history as teachers were crap and we rarely got much further than the Civil War in US history.

Anyhow, at least they've finally decided to have some backbone on hate speech.

 

[CRI]

Ron Perlman is doing a pretty good job of shit kicking on Twitter, btw.

 

[butchersapron]

The ACLU effectively won the permit for the unite right the rally to take place. So which backbone are we on about?

 

[Pickman's model]

Been away a bit. Anyone picked up on this yet?

ACLU of California Statement: White Supremacist Violence is Not Free Speech

ACLU has come in for criticism in the past for defending some real asshats. I remember when they took up the case of the KKK wanting to march through Skokie in the late 1970's. For those not aware, it's a predominately Jewish suburb of Chicago, with a high proportion of residents at the time being survivors of the Holocaust. They did quite a good TV film about it with Danny Kaye. We were shown it in High School Government class, and it was genuinely the first time most of the kids heard of the Holocaust. Didn't come up in history as teachers were crap and we rarely got much further than the Civil War in US history.

Anyhow, at least they've finally decided to have some backbone on hate speech.

what's the relationship of the aclu of california to national aclu?