Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[butchersapron]

Ron Perlman is doing a pretty good job of shit kicking on Twitter, btw.

Fuck yeah! celebs on twitter.That's the battleground.

 

[CRI]

what's the relationship of the aclu of california to national aclu?

Not entirely sure tbh. I'm guessing there's some kind of federated structure. Google may help here. I'm offski to the shop for dog food.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Have you not seen the SNL clip I posted above? How could that not instantly change the mind of any political opponent?!?

I watched it, I vomited copiously, then I thought to myself "shit, it's only American liberals chatting shit. Who gives a fuck?".

 

[YouSir]

Fuck yeah! celebs on twitter.That's the battleground.

Did anyone say it was?

 

[Idris2002]

PM me their contact details. I'll tell 'em!

Yes, well, I'm already the weird one in the circle, so there'll be none of that, thank you very much.

 

[J Ed]

Did anyone say it was?

Not explicitly but since CRI, and those like CRI, have attacked every other avenue as impossible or illegitimate I think that BA's comment is a fair one. Politics as consumption of media which covers elite level manouvering. You can see another example of that, the attempt to demobilise ordinary people, in the youtube link I posted on the previous page.

 

[butchersapron]

Did anyone say it was?

Yes i think they did. When placed within the context of the liberal fightback since halfway through 2016.

 

[YouSir]

Yes i think they did. When placed within the context of the liberal fightback since halfway through 2016.

Fair enough. I've no problem with slebs throwing their voices into the condemnation, but then I don't think it's that important either, just a side note. If people think it's important then they're wrong to.

 

[CRI]

what's the relationship of the aclu of california to national aclu?

Also this - it appears from the national body.

ACLU Will No Longer Defend Hate Groups Protesting With Firearms

The American Civil Liberties Union, taking a tougher stance on armed protests, will no longer defend hate groups seeking to march with firearms, the group’s executive director said.

Following clashes over the weekend in Charlottesville, Va., the civil-rights group also will screen clients more closely for the potential of violence at their rallies, said Anthony Romero, who has been the ACLU’s executive director since 2001.

The ACLU’s Virginia branch defended the right of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and other groups under the banner “Unite the Right” to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from a Charlottesville park.

“The events of Charlottesville require any judge, any police chief and any legal group to look at the facts of any white-supremacy protests with a much finer comb,” said Mr. Romero.

The revised policy marries the 97-year-old civil-rights group’s First Amendment work with the organization’s stance on firearms, which aligns with many municipalities and states that bar protesters from carrying weapons.

“If a protest group insists, ‘No, we want to be able to carry loaded firearms,’ well, we don’t have to represent them. They can find someone else,” Mr. Romero said, adding that the decision was in keeping with a 2015 policy adopted by the ACLU’s national board in support of “reasonable” firearm regulation.

Mr. Romero said the ACLU would continue to deal with requests by white-supremacist groups and others for legal help on a case-by-case basis. “It’s neither a blanket no or a blanket yes,” he said.

 

[butchersapron]

That seems like a bit of a movement from the ACLU's historical position - the weapons is a political thing that has nothing to do with it's charter.

 

[TomUS]

Bibi is taking tons of shit over this. But looks like he's going down. His son blames leftist extremists.

“After he turned Trump into the best thing that has happened to the Jews in 5,000 years, into the greatest friend of Israel in history, how can Netanyahu now issue a condemnation and talk about an anti-Semitic and racist president?”...described Mr. Netanyahu’s silence about Mr. Trump’s remarks as “tacit support.”

Netanyahu Is Uncharacteristically Subdued on Trump’s Remarks

“The thugs of Antifa and [Black Lives Matter] who hate my country (and America too in my view) just as much are getting stronger and stronger and becoming super dominant in American universities and public life,” he warned.

Bibi Netanyahu's son declares growing far-left extremists more dangerous than dying breed Nazis

 

[CRI]

I was curious about Trump's religious counsel. We've heard all sorts of news about his business counsels, but nothing about the religious one. So I looked it up. Evidently, every single pastor on the religious counsel is sticking with Trump.



President Trump's Religious Advisory Council stands firmly with him

Not a peep out of them about Neo-Nazi's and violence in the streets. It's strange to contemplate that our country's CEO's have more moral rectitude than our "Christian" religious leaders. I know I've said this before but, modern Christianity is a cult. Its values owe more to Anton Lavey than anything else.

One down . . .

 

[danny la rouge]

The jews that still stand by him in silence, inside the administration & out do make me sick the most of all.
Every Jewish member of Trump’s administration should resign

I have a fundamental problem with sentiments like this: "It's a no-brainer: If you're a Jew and your boss says nice things about people who marched in the street chanting anti-Semitic and Nazi-era slogans, you have to resign in protest".

Why single out Jews? Surely, it applies if you're a decent human being? I don't buy the idea that Jews have a particular responsibility to oppose Nazis or anti-Semitism. All decent humans have an equal responsibility. All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting. These are things that are not and should not be distributed in different measure according to ethnicity.

That's not nit picking: that's the deep grammar of human solidarity. An injury to one is an injury to all.

 

[CRI]

Kinda obvious, but . . .

Armed Militias Won’t Stop After Charlottesville, and That Worries Law Enforcement

One leader of the militia groups said they went to Charlottesville only to “protect the peace.” But during the chaos of Saturday’s standoff quickly militia members found they mostly had to defend themselves. One member, whom one militia leader later said was known to have mental health concerns, even drew a weapon and came very close to firing on the crowd. That’s exactly what police officials say they’re worried about — one shot that could spark even further tragedy — and why they are calling on militia considering attending future events to stand down.

One reason the presence of heavily armed men patrolling during “alt-right” events adds a new level of danger is because no one is entirely sure why they are even there or to whom they are accountable, including the militia members themselves.

 

[bimble]

I have a fundamental problem with sentiments like this: "It's a no-brainer: If you're a Jew and your boss says nice things about people who marched in the street chanting anti-Semitic and Nazi-era slogans, you have to resign in protest".

Why single out Jews? Surely, it applies if you're a decent human being? I don't buy the idea that Jews have a particular responsibility to oppose Nazis or anti-Semitism. All decent humans have an equal responsibility. All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting. These are things that are not and should not be distributed in different measure according to ethnicity.

That's not nit picking: that's the deep grammar of human solidarity. An injury to one is an injury to all.

You're right, of course. I can't help feeling it though, but that's emotional stuff on my part not rational.

 

[bimble]

The state of it though, hadn't seen this video before.

"

 

[danny la rouge]

You're right, of course. I can't help feeling it though, but that's emotional stuff on my part not rational.

Sure, but I think the author is probably having the fundamental response I referred to (human solidarity) distorted by Racecraft.

 

[TomUS]

The state of it though, hadn't seen this video before.

"

Trump has unleashed this vermin. I never expected to see a scene like this in the US.

 

[butchersapron]

Er...it's been going on for near 5 decades.

 

[Idris2002]

Er...it's been going on for near 5 decades.

What, is it 1826 already?

 

[CRI]

You're right, of course. I can't help feeling it though, but that's emotional stuff on my part not rational.

Sorry, but scolding people who are/have been at the sharp end of systemic oppression and violence for having a gut reaction to it because "all decent human beings should find it equally disgusting," makes me feel queasy. I'm not saying the post was meant to be malicious and certainly not a "not all gentiles." Intended or not though, things like this still re-centre the issue away from the experience of the people actually experiencing the abuse first hand.

The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but history tells us that too often when Jewish people, people of colour, women, etc. have counted on others to back them, to stand with them, to speak for them, they've been let down, badly. Is chiding someone for their gut reaction to bigotry really going to instill more faith that "human solidarity" will keep them safe?

 

[CRI]

Trump has unleashed this vermin. I never expected to see a scene like this in the US.

Yes, we all know the bigots have always been there. But as long as they kept their vile views to themselves, they didn't cause the folk they hate that much harm. Now that they feel justified in taking to the streets to make their point, because y'know, the President agrees with them, it's a bit of a game changer.

 

[Pickman's model]

Trump has unleashed this vermin. I never expected to see a scene like this in the US.

Perhaps you should read some history books chuck

 

[danny la rouge]

Sorry, but scolding people who are/have been at the sharp end of systemic oppression and violence for having a gut reaction to it because "all decent human beings should find it equally disgusting," makes me feel queasy. I'm not saying the post was meant to be malicious and certainly not a "not all gentiles." Intended or not though, things like this still re-centre the issue away from the experience of the people actually experiencing the abuse first hand.

The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but history tells us that too often when Jewish people, people of colour, women, etc. have counted on others to back them, to stand with them, to speak for them, they've been let down, badly. Is chiding someone for their gut reaction to bigotry really going to instill more faith that "human solidarity" will keep them safe?

I wasn't chiding anyone for their gut reaction to anything. So your "reading comprehension" has again failed you.

As for this:

"The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but history tells us that too often when Jewish people, people of colour, women, etc. have counted on others to back them, to stand with them, to speak for them, they've been let down, badly. "

You're missing the point: the point is that as soon as one allows that it is even sensible to divide us into "races" (or whatever the census term might be), then it becomes possible for some to heave a sigh of relief that "their" "race" is not being singled out for attention.

TL; DR?

As soon as you say "the idea of 'human solidarity' is great but" then you have created a monster.

 

[butchersapron]

That's one of the scariest things i've ever read on here - from what's supposed to be a left perspective anyway. That but is pure poison and should be kicked back to the far-right where it came from. Charlottsville was the victory of that nonsense.

 

[rekil]

#IStandAgainstHumanSolidarity

 

[seventh bullet]

Solidarity is hard. No-one said it was easy. It's even harder with actively creating the conditions and racial division that the far-right lick their chops at.

 

[butchersapron]

gee this white lady sure is doing a lot communicating what she says is incommunicable for us.

Actually that post is just extending the now established bit of CRI's argument that leftists are racists back in time isn't it? It just wipes out the real history of leftist anti-racism. And then, worse, it tries to extend this into the future - the worst people to fight racism are leftist anti-racists. Shun them.

 

[danny la rouge]

That's one of the scariest things i've ever read on here - from what's supposed to be a left perspective anyway. That but is pure poison and should be kicked back to the far-right where it came from. Charlottsville was the victory of that nonsense.

This, this, this. A thousand times this.

 

[JimW]

...Is chiding someone for their gut reaction to bigotry really going to instill more faith that "human solidarity" will keep them safe?

That you could read that as chiding exposes your terrible politics again. I'm doing my best to be polite, because you've just expressed some of the most counterproductive sentiments I've ever read from a supposed ally.